Weekend – Israel as the Jesus Among Nations – Open Thread

The Christian Quarter in the Old City of Jerusalem

How G.K. Chesterton and Jacques Maritain led the Catholic Church to reject the myth of Jewish wandering and recognize the Jewish state

This is a fascinating and informative history of Zionism, Christianity and the founding of Israel.  G.K. Chesterton, the Christian scholar, has been wrongly accused, I believe, of being an anti-Semite.  My intention here in posting is not to engage in theological disputes, but to provide background history for all of us – Christians and Jews.

Despite its harsh tone, this well-known statement by the Vatican secretary of state did not indicate implacable hostility toward Jews. In fact, Cardinal Merry del Val’s declaration that the church has always protected the Jews had a degree of historical validity that was given credence by his actions a few years after his meeting with Herzl. With the revival of European blood libels at the beginning of the 20th century, Cardinal Merry del Val labeled the libels “an incredible myth.” He reminded Catholics that between the 13th and 18th centuries the popes had rejected again and again the veracity of claims that Jews killed Christian children and used their blood in religious rituals.

and,

Concerning Zionism, there is a significant difference between Protestant and Catholic views. In contrast to the diversity of Protestant responses to Zionism, some of which were positive and some negative, the official Catholic response was clearly negative. The Protestant focus on the Bible as the sole source of authority, led to a reevaluation of the Jewish aspiration to return to the land. For the Protestant reformers, the people of Israel were historically relevant. The Vatican opposed Zionism in both its political and cultural manifestations. The prospect of a Jewish state in the Christian Holy Land was threatening to the Vatican, because Zionism, and later the State of Israel, presented the church with a challenge to established doctrines.

Theodor Herzl was the first European Jew to promote and lobby for a Zionist state for Jews in Palestine.  He met with quite a bit of opposition and wasn’t strongly supported by many of his fellow Jews.  He died at the young age of 44 in 1904.  He is buried in Israel on the mountain named for him.

The Hashomer Volunteer Militia ,”The Watchman”, in 1907 Israel

In the 1920s, Zionist leaders recognized that some Catholic intellectuals might be sympathetic to Zionist aspirations, despite the official position of the Vatican. One dissenter from the then dominant Catholic view of Zionism was G.K. Chesterton. As historian Patrick Allitt has noted: “Among the English Catholics whose work was widely read in America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, nearly all were converts. … Chesterton was widely recognized in his day and since as a master of English prose, and he gave to this convert generation much of its distinctive voice and mood.” Throughout the 20th century and into the 21st, Chesterton’s ideas and attitudes have influenced Americans of all religious traditions.

and furthermore,

Yet Chesterton’s The New Jerusalem, an account of his 1919 tour of Palestine, concluded with a spirited defense of Zionism. That within the very same book Chesterton made antisemitic remarks should not surprise us. Chesterton admired the “new Jew” of Palestine and hoped that British Jews would move to Palestine and transform themselves into the Middle Easterners they really were. It was the “old Jews of Europe” that he disdained.

not without this,

Although he was pessimistic about Catholic support for Zionism, Herzl remained optimistic about Anglican and Protestant support. He had been in close contact with Protestant clergymen since the preparations for the First Zionist Congress of 1897. Anglican clergyman Rev. William Hechler, who had articulated support for the restoration of the Jews as early as 1883, helped Herzl obtain an audience with the Duke of Baden and his nephew Kaiser Wilhelm. Other Protestant clergymen and laymen, including a number of Americans, were associated with the seemingly contradictory 19th-century combination of Protestant missions to the Jews and support for a Jewish home in Palestine. In the late 19th century, Christians assisting in the restoration of the Jews to their land were for the most part Protestants of the various denominations; Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christians were, for the most part, hostile to Zionist aims.

and now Mauritain,

With the rise of Nazism in Germany, Maritain joined other French intellectuals in a call to distance the church from political antisemitism. In 1935, responding to the Nuremberg Laws, Oscar de Ferenzy, one of Maritain’s close colleagues argued: “I defend Israel because Jesus was the descendant of David. I defend Israel because I am a Christian; as a Christian, I have the duty to come to its aid.”

and yet,

The ideology of secular Judaism, especially as espoused by Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion, disturbed Maritain. As Paul Merkley has noted, Christian supporters of Israel “would have preferred, other things being equal, to find believing Jews at the helm of the new state. But this was not to be … the leading figures in the new government itself were all secularists.

however,

”This dramatic statement, and others like it, reflected Maritain’s influence. John Paul II expanded on this teaching by explicitly linking the Shoah to the need for a Jewish state. In 1980, the pope noted that Jews, having undergone “tragic experiences connected with the extermination of so many sons and daughters, were driven by the desire for security to set up the State of Israel.” In 1985, the Vatican issued “Notes on the Correct Way to Present Jews to Judaism in Preaching and Catechesis on the Roman Catholic Church.” Not only did this decree withdraw the charge of “deicide” imputed to the Jews; it redefined the church’s understanding of its relationship to Judaism: “Because of the unique relations that exist between Christianity and Judaism—linking together at the very level of their identity—relations founded on the design of God of the Covenant, the Jews and Judaism should not occupy an occasional and marginal place in Catechesis: Their presence there is essential and should be organically integrated.” These were powerful words; official acts that backed them up would soon follow.

 

 

 

 

 


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78 responses to “Weekend – Israel as the Jesus Among Nations – Open Thread”

  1. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    First?! Well it’s a bit Fallish, a brisk 49 here in L.A. but we’ll make the high 70’s by mid afternoon. No real rain since the last week of September and we need it.
    Mornin’ Gang

  2. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    I’ve not been keeping up with the news but this morning, on Fox, I saw three ads for Democrats in Swing States bragging on how they sided with Trump. Gotta’ love it! 😀

  3. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    Deleted. Might not be suitable for all audiences. 😉

  4. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    I came across this very interesting article on the Circassian people in Israel, originally Christians in the Caucasus near the Black Sea, they were converted to Islam in the 1500-1800s period. The Czar of Russia resorted to mass murder to drive them out and the survivors ended up in what is now Israel. They are loyal Israeli citizens and serve in the IDF.

    Originally, there were three main Circassian settlements in the Land of Israel, of which two remain: Kfar Kama and Rehaniya; the third settlement, near the town of Hadera, was abandoned due to an outbreak of malaria. Throughout the 19th century, the region of the eastern Lower Galilee, where Kfar Kama was founded, was under the de facto control of Bedouin tribes. The Ottoman government tried to impose its rule over the region in various ways, settling Maghrebi migrants from Algiers there and sending Kurdish battalions to confront the Bedouin, but with little success. The arrival of the Circassians changed things and effectively paved the way for Jewish settlement in the area about twenty years later. The “Old Village” complex in Kfar Kama, founded in 1878, reflects the conditions in the Land of Israel at that time. In the Caucasus, the Circassian villages were built over large areas, with houses constructed close together, thereby creating a defensive wall around the village’s public spaces for reasons of security and defense. Kfar Kama is one of the most impressive surviving examples of local construction from the late 19th century and early 20th century in the Land of Israel.

    Wherever they went, the Circassians often brought modernization along with them. Besides the Galilee, they established 13 settlements in the central Golan Heights, while also settling across the Jordan River, where they established the modern city of Amman. They introduced advanced construction methods, metal and woodworking techniques, a mixed economy, and also incorporated European architectural styles, such as the famous “Marseille tiles” still visible in their villages. Kfar Kama became an important regional center in the late Ottoman and Mandatory periods. They built a modern mill in a central area of ​​the Old Village which became a meeting place for all of the area’s inhabitants — Arab peasants, Bedouins, Jews and the local Circassians. In the 1948 war, the Circassians chose to fight alongside the Jews, and ever since then they have fulfilled their compulsory service in the IDF.

  5. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    Things are looking grim when Sen. Tammy Baldwin is running ads featuring Donald Trump and so is the Democratic candidate Casey in Pennsylvania. To hell with Kamala ! I’m going to save my own a$$ !!!

    1. Super Dave Avatar
      Super Dave

      As reported in my @ 7:46 AM. I couldn’t remember all their names so do you know who the third one is? Female I think?

  6. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    SO! Is Kamala really a better choice than Biden? I found this interesting, Biden beats Kamala with women voters?!

  7. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    It’s been many years since I had to fly on Delta and I’ll do everything I can to avoid giving them my money again. Spread the word.

    A Marine Corps veteran was removed from a Delta flight before she was ordered to change clothes when a flight attendant ruled that the passenger’s shirt which brought attention to military suicides was “threatening.”

    Catherine Banks, a 22-year veteran of the Marines, was onboard the Delta flight at San Francisco International Airport to visit family on Oct. 16, when she wore her dark gray outfit and sat in her extra-legroom seat she paid extra.

    “Do Not Give In To The War Within. End Veteran Suicide,” Banks’ shirt read.

    1. Super Dave Avatar
      Super Dave

      That’s a 22 year veteran like it says but I first read it as 22 YO veteran. Yes I’m slow. 😉

    2. Bonecrusher Avatar
      Bonecrusher

      #1 The flight attendant should be fired.
      #2 The marine should be compensated high 6 figures.
      #3 Delta should be required to donate high 8 figures to organizations that help distressed veterans.
      #4 All Delta staff should be ‘retrained’ as to what constitutes ‘offensive.’

      Make the wokies live by their own rules. Hard.

  8. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    It is amazing how far away from the original positions taken when our country was founded. Read this from James Madison. RTWDT.

  9. Tedtam Avatar
    Tedtam

    Got back from our first rosary rally/procession at Discovery Green. It went well, the weather was beautiful. I managed to give away a handful of rosaries. One little girl was able to give some away as the group walked and prayed. I gave her a fist bump. Her mom and dad helped me carry all my stuff back to my car, and we got to talking. He’s an ATC at Hobby and will be retiring to work part time/fill in at Ellington. I told him I live next door to Hobby and my sister lives near Ellington.

    The mom has several broken rosaries, and I look forward to repairing those for her soon.

    One of the recipients this morning was Sgt. Walker, a very charming yet size-intimidating officer at the Green. He loved that we were praying in public. He accepted one of my best rosaries and instructions, even though he’s Southern Baptist. He was very impressed with it and expressed his appreciation generously. Like I told him, you don’t have to be Catholic to pray! He was all up on that. I hope I get to see him again the next time we go.

  10. Tedtam Avatar
    Tedtam

    I’m way behind on my sleep. My forehead bump was annoying. I had a problem during mass, too. Every time I made the sign of the cross (touch forehead, heart, left shoulder, right shoulder), I tapped the bump. It’s a little tender.

    I offered it up.

  11. Tedtam Avatar
    Tedtam

    I had another issue during mass, too. Since I didn’t realize that so many were going to walk from church to the Green, I had prepared for a possible confrontation by myself: a little personal alarm (pull the string, really loud noise), my Byrna, and “Bad Guy” spray (also from Byrna). I had some items in a fanny pack. Instead of my usual skirt, I wore pants in anticipation of the day’s event.

    I went to the restroom just before mass started, and when I sat down, I felt something under my left bum.

    My little personal alarm had somehow found its way from my fanny pack into my pants. I was alarmed – no pun intended – and worried that somehow that thing was going to go off in the middle of prayer. The first chance I got, I went back to the ladies’ room and retrieved the wayward item. Man, I avoided causing a ruckus!

    I. can’t. even. imagine.

  12. Tedtam Avatar
    Tedtam

    Hezbollah drone targets Netanyahu’s Caesarea home; he says ‘agents of Iran tried to assassinate me’

  13. Tedtam Avatar
    Tedtam

    Missed hookin’ y’all up with Malone’s Friday Funnies.

  14. Adee Avatar
    Adee

    Weatherwise we started out at 59 this morning and are stuck at 82 this afternoon. Quite windy from the south this morning has become an off and on lazy breeze.

    Several acorns thumping on the garden room roof had rumbled around loud enough to attract everybody’s attention. Wonder how they can be so loud hitting that roof. It appears that the nut supply is nowhere near used up, for which the squirrels have plenty of work to do fetching and hiding them. But a pair of them apparently are having a romantic interlude in the front yard.

  15. squawkbox Avatar
    squawkbox

    If comments do not pick up i am gonna have to…………. well you don’t wanna know what i am gonna have to do

    1. wagonburner Avatar
      wagonburner

      Teresa, Mandela, Ghandi, ???, & hick Santa

  16. Tedtam Avatar
    Tedtam

    I just assumed folks were out enjoying God’s wonderful weather today. That thought made me happy. We should enjoy His world until we can’t.

    1. squawkbox Avatar
      squawkbox

      It’s all good. I am full of bluster and not much more than that.

  17. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    I am engaged in cultural enrichment

    1. Bonecrusher Avatar
      Bonecrusher

      “Micro-Wrestling” brings out an interesting segment of society.

  18. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    The day itself was beautiful and the skies magnificent. If everyday was this exquisite I would be spoiled rotten and demand every day be the same. The project I was working on though was very frustrating and made me half crazy.

  19. squawkbox Avatar
    squawkbox

    Morning Gang
    Hammie loved this picture
    Now go outside and enjoy the day.

    1. GJT Avatar
      GJT

      Back then that was a weird picture.

      1. squawkbox Avatar
        squawkbox

        Yeah it has lost it’s shock value

        1. Super Dave Avatar
          Super Dave

          “Mainstream” ~SIGH~

    2. Super Dave Avatar
      Super Dave

      DAYAAM! EYE BLEACH! I do rememebr that one, not that I’d want to.

  20. squawkbox Avatar
    squawkbox

    Nothing like a back stabbing “friend?.

    Leaked documents show US intelligence on Israel’s plans to attack Iran, sources say

  21. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    Well I’m not at all surprised. ~SIGH~

    Coca Cola is facing backlash across America after it was revealed that they won’t let you personalize a can with “Jesus” but allows Satan, Allah and all of the Babylonian Gods and demons.

    Oh and Mornin’ Gang

  22. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    Well I was real disappointed that Bama got beat by Tennessee but surprised that the Dawgs beat UT. So Bama beat Georgia and Georgia beat Texas, what does that mean? Nuttin’ it means nothing, just college football.
    FWIW; I didn’t think Alabama deserved the #1 slot after they beat Georgia.

  23. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    Went with my son last night to Houston Motorsports Park to watch some oval asphalt racing, they have spectator racing where he ran his Corvette. He’s done it a few times before and won once but he couldn’t beat a guy in a Ford Explorer so he bought a set of stock tires, although used, hoping for a little more traction but all he did was slide around even at partial throttle so had to pull off.

    Part of the point if bringing that up is, I had no idea the EcoBoost Explorers had so much power – making 515HP to the wheels with a stock motor tuned for E85 with only a couple of “bolt ons”. I need to keep up more.

    1. GJT Avatar
      GJT

      BTW, the Explorer guy did get beat by a pretty hopped up 90’s Mustang but he did win the season championship.

    2. Super Dave Avatar
      Super Dave

      I need to keep up more.

      Tell me about it! Yesterday I was at Whaley’s Tires getting the oil changed in my old GMC and noticed a late model Camaro on the rack with the rear end removed and I discovered that it had IRS!? I texted the Boy and asked him if he knew about that and he said; Of course, since 2010!!!

      1. GJT Avatar
        GJT

        I did know Camaros had independent suspensions now.

      2. GJT Avatar
        GJT

        I can hear my son’s tone in that one – “Yeah, since 2010 Dad.” 😀

    3. Super Dave Avatar
      Super Dave

      It is absolutely amazing how much HP they can get out of a normally aspirated engine but when they add a turbo look out!

      1. GJT Avatar
        GJT

        I “think” the Explorer had twin turbos, factory.

        1. Super Dave Avatar
          Super Dave

          Tiny 60 degree V6 or I4?

  24. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    Democrats Face Voter Exodus Ahead of 2024 Election

    A recent Gallup survey has revealed a key change in political party identification across the nation. The Democrat Party is experiencing a significant loss of registered voters as the election approaches.

    The battleground state of Pennsylvania, in particular, recently showed a 103 percent increase in voters leaving the Democrat Party. The Gallup survey also revealed that 31% of Americans now identify as Republicans, while only 28% consider themselves Democrats.

    The number of independents currently sits at a staggering 41%.

    Analysts have largely attributed the decline in Democratic support to economic concerns and a general dissatisfaction with the Biden administration’s policies.

    Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump have recently intensified voter outreach efforts, including strategic media appearances.

    Harris recently did an interview with Fox News’ Bret Baier, while Trump has remained active on the ground in swing states.

    Emphasis mine

  25. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    Well, that’s embarrassing.

    Texas (6-1, 2-1) won at reigning national champion Michigan in Week 2 and had been behind for less than four minutes all season before facing the the back-to-back national champ before the Wolverines. 

    The 15-point loss was the most lopsided for a No. 1 team at home since Notre Dame’s 31-16 win at Pittsburgh in 1982, according to Sportradar, when Dan Marino was the Panthers quarterback.

  26. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    My @ 8:29 AM.

    Republicans 31%

    Democrats 28%

    Independents 41%

    I’ve never believed that I’d see a third party in my lifetime but now I’m not so sure.

    1. Texpat Avatar
      Texpat

      It’s not a third party, Dave.

      “Independent” describes someone who leans Right or leans Left, but doesn’t want to claim to be a member of a party. It’s all about semantics and the parties have done it to their images with their lying, corruption and hypocrisy. Both Republicans and Democrats have severely damaged their brand in the Public Square.

      1. Super Dave Avatar
        Super Dave

        Yes I do understand that but I was thinking that with so many folks disillusioned with both parties there might be a chance of a third party emerging BUT that hasn’t happened since the Civil War? And like I said, I’ve not thought it would happen in my lifetime.

  27. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    I absolutely love this redneck revenge video. I must have watched it 5 times last night.

      1. Texpat Avatar
        Texpat

        I just added the hot link I forgot earlier.

    1. Super Dave Avatar
      Super Dave

      That is great!

  28. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    The increasing number of folks identifying as Independents are mostly folks who just refuse to identify with the sorry ass Republican Party.
    I am one of them.

    1. Super Dave Avatar
      Super Dave

      I resemble that remark.

  29. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    Commenting is closed?! Oh I get it, I’d been kicked off and had to Log-In. But I did have a big white square/rectangle to write in and it said that I was logged in but after I refreshed it told me to Log-In. Hal is a strange dude. 😉

    1. Texpat Avatar
      Texpat

      It happens to me all the time, even after I’ve composed a long comment. I have to copy the comment, log back in and then paste the comment into a new box.

  30. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    Chris Bray has been a contributor over at The Federalist and I’ve always thought he is sharp. This is his new Substack column and he captures exactly the way I’ve been thinking.

    See, Trump is JUST LIKE HITLER! Didn’t see that one coming, right? Imagine how excited she was to have that amazing new thought, living inside such a fresh and original mind.

    There are writers who try to see something clearly, and then to show it to other people, and there are writers who are…Anne Applebaum. The prevailing model in American “mainstream” media is to go plow the same row again and again and again, because plowing where everybody else has already plowed is, I don’t know, safe? Consensus journalism, the 9,746th journalist ringing your doorbell to announce that Trump is a lot like Adolf Hitler. Looking wonderfully proud of themselves, like they just shat a cookie. All day, every day, all messages are the same message. Idea for a new movie: Groundhog Minute.

    And I’m just done with it. David Brooks, Tom Nichols, William Kristol, and Peggy Noonan have all written the most amazingly refutable piles of nonsense in the last few days, being professionals at the task, and I kept asking out loud if David Brooks hears himself, because every paragraph clashes and refutes all the other paragraphs around it. But no. For me, barring some miraculous act of banality that just can’t be ignored, the election is over. There’s nothing left to say about this…horrible, horrible, horrible thing. It’s road trips and music until November 5, because my patience is all gone for this ludicrous spectacle. I’ll figure out some other things to write about until then. I may spend 2028 in Nunavut. Join me. Bring whiskey. Don’t bring news.

  31. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    Wow. After Van Laar announcing the following information, the Red State website server crashed.

    RedState Managing Editor Jennifer Van Laar revealed the critical intelligence leak about Israeli plans for attacking Iran came out of the office of  the Pentagon’s office of low-intensity/special operations. This is the office where Ariane Tabatabai, Iran sympathizer and possible spy, works.

    1. Shannon Avatar
      Shannon

      Ha! I just knew it was some Pentagon/DDI/DIA Scum who leaked it.

    1. squawkbox Avatar
      squawkbox

      Hey I was waiting.
      Just this morning I told BSue, “Yanno what?”
      She said, ‘What?”
      I said, “I hope Super Dave posts this year’s Miss National Peanut Festival winner.”
      She said, “For your sake I certainly hope so.” 

  32. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    Well, it’s official. Come January I’ll be serving a two year Church Council term. Though I have served and led my share of committees, I have managed to avoid a Council position all these years, mostly due to work or personal obligations. I’ve turned them down for so many years that they quit asking for a long, long time.

    I guess they figured out that I have run out of excuses. 🙂

  33. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    I just took the pack for a walk around the block. 96 lb pit/boxer mix, 26 lb ballistic missile, Sarah, and a 24 lb pit bull/staffordshire/great Dane/Siberian husky puppy. 1 is a dog, 2 are dogs, 2+ is a pack.

  34. Tedtam Avatar
    Tedtam

    Got home from church about an hour ago. I stayed after mass to hug babies and kids (all of “my kids” were there today!), then went back inside for adoration. On the way out I stopped to discuss yesterday’s prayer event with another parishioner. Finally made it out to my car and noticed four guys parking in our parking lot across from Minute Maid. I stopped and asked if they realized they were in church parking, to which one guy said “we’re just taking pictures”. I told him that was fine, but was he Catholic and did he have a rosary? He got all excited and chose one from my purse stash.

    So, double dose of Jesus today, lots of guerilla grandma behavior, and I handed out a rosary to a totally random dude.

    I don’t know if Sundays can get any better than that.

  35. Adee Avatar
    Adee

    The Packers/Texans game today seemed to be more like an old-time football game between two excellent teams, with no wild scoring into the great beyond by one of them, just good play in revered Lambeau Field.
    It wasn’t over until it was over in the very last seconds when the Packers scored to win 24-22.

    One of the announcers remarked that perhaps we will see them both again in the Super Bowl. That would be very interesting.

    1. Shannon Avatar
      Shannon

      Two amazing passers…yet so dependent on the rushing game.
      Ole thyme football.
      My opinion:
      Texans offensive line needs more killers and depth. How many more games does 30 year-old Laremy Tunsil have left in him? Without him, running back Mixon goes no where.

    1. Shannon Avatar
      Shannon

      So clearly a threat to democracy.

    2. Adee Avatar
      Adee

      Wow, what a crowd. The LSM should be in convulsions over that being shown far and wide. Which it surely is thanks to good folks like Tedtam who make sure to send it on.

  36. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    NCIS Origins may be the best one yet.
    We’ll see.

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