Tuesday Burns/Novick Review Thread

 Mackubin Thomas Owens 

Owens was a Marine infantry platoon leader in Vietnam, received a Silver Star, retired as a colonel, has a bio/resume far too long to list, not the least of which is his birthplace in Bryan, Texas.

He has written a two part review of the Ken Burns and Lynn Novick documentary I believe is the best I’ve read so far.

The divisions over Vietnam are deep and people on both sides of the divide have become invested in their respective positions. As someone who is proud of his service during the Vietnam War, I saw the series—touted as an even-handed portrayal of the war—as just another manifestation of the standard narrative advanced by those of the “Vietnam generation” who have somehow been anointed as spokesmen for all of us.

Let me be stark in describing the polar attitudes of those who came of age during the Vietnam era. On the one side in this culture war are those who believe that Vietnam wasn’t very different from other wars. The cause was just, but it was as affected by ambiguities as any other war, including World War II. In the end, the U.S. defeat was the result of strategic failure, not moral failure. Those who fought it were doing their duty as they saw it, just as their fathers and grandfathers had done theirs when the times demanded it of them.

and,

Such are the problems with the series. I was struck by the absence of certain voices. There is nothing from those who have offered reasoned defenses of both the purpose and conduct of the war, especially Jim Webb. There is no mention of Mark Moyar, who has written a revisionist study of the war, or of Bob Sorley’simportant contribution to the study of the military leadership during the war, which has generated a lively debate among US Army historians. Sorley appears in the documentary, but if he was asked to talk about his revisionist history of the war, it must have ended up on the cutting room floor. I was stuck as well be the downplaying of the patriotism and sense of purpose that fortified the resolve of many of the Americans who served in Vietnam—including the two-thirds who volunteered.

and most tellingly,

But this is bad history. A 1980 Harris poll of Vietnam veterans revealed that 91 percent were proud of their wartime service; 74 percent enjoyed their time in the service; and, contrary to the notion that the war was inherently unwinnable, 89 percent agreed with the statement that “our troops were asked to fight in a war which our political leaders in Washington would not let them win.” One would think the producers could have found at least a few veterans who supported the war.

The particularly grievous result of all this is that Burns and Novick wrongly reinforce the myth that the US military in Vietnam was an army of unwilling and dispirited draftees—and one composed of an unjust overrepresentation of minorities. But in fact, two-thirds of those who served — and 73% of those who died — were volunteers. With respect to minorities, African-Americans comprised 13.1% of the draftable age group, 12.6% of the military, and 12.2% of the casualties.

(Emphasis added.)

RTWDT*:

PART I

PART II

*trademarked


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67 responses to “Tuesday Burns/Novick Review Thread”

  1. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    Dang, Tuesday just popped up.
    Mornin’ Gang

  2. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    So on yesterday’s thread, early in the morning, I saw to picture of Central Park. I thought in might have some background story if I clicked on it but nothing happened. I clicked on the title and still nothing, then, when I got home, I noticed a clickable link in the title, so my question is, was it there all the time or added later?

  3. Katfish Avatar

    TP – Brother I stand (or sit) to be corrected. That one video was highly “incomplete” vis a vis machine shop capabilities.

  4. Sarge Avatar

    Shannon says:
    OCTOBER 23, 2017 AT 6:36 PM
    Sarge
    This hipster HEB….Meatless? Plenty of trans restrooms?

    All I know right now is that they’ve got fancy planters around three sides. Made of steel mesh, but they won’t tell me what size the supporting steel is and they want it now.

  5. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    Looking at the Central Park photo yesterday, I was curious about the giant complex of buildings encroaching on the park on the south side of the lake. Turns out it is the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
    Some trivia: The park is 843 acres and the lake covers 106 acres.

  6. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    2 SD

    …was it there all the time or added later?

    I added it about 10 minutes after the original posting at 06:28 yesterday.

  7. Tedtam Avatar

    This morning’s chicken report: there are none.

    Either the dogs chased down the last stragglers yesterday or the birds have realized that my backyard is a killing field.

  8. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    Someone give Texpat one of those TM thingies! Stat! 😀

    I did not watch either of the Ken Burns Shows but reports of bias do not surprise, despicable given the claim this was at last a down the middle look at the Vietnam war.

    Great reviews, thanks for linking them.

  9. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    3 KF

    A point I kept trying to make is these bootleg jungle gun making operations are dispersed across a bunch of different locations. The shed you saw was just some guys assembling the rough finished parts that were machined in different locations by probably several machinists.

  10. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    Heh.

    Breitbart “Do not be afraid”, the president told reporters at a press conference Friday, pointing out that the novelty item was loaded only with “a bottle of Becherovka” liquor as ammunition.

    While the mock-up was given as a gift to Zeman — a strong proponent of the U.S. constitution’s second amendment — during his recent tour of the Czech Republic’s Karlovy Vary region, Western media snowflakes have presented the stunt as a serious threat to the lives of journalists working in the central European nation.

    Noting that the Czech president has “sought ways to keep immigrants out”, The Washington Post accused Zeman of having “declared war on the media”, in an article which claimed journalists are increasingly unsafe in European Union (EU) nations whose voters and governments reject mass migration.

  11. Katfish Avatar

    #10 – Duly noted! (I know it took me a while) 🙂

  12. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    My favorite World Series moment.
    In 1988 the Dodgers are down 4-3 to the A’s in Game 1.
    Two outs, man on first, bottom of the 9th in LA.
    A barely mobile Kirk Gibson is sent in to pinch hit.

    https://youtu.be/N4nwMDZYXTI

  13. Katfish Avatar

    #13 – Well posted Brother!

    That was a sho nuff DOOZY!

  14. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    Only problem is it was the Dodgers.

  15. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    I’m still sub-par, still coughing, still not getting anything done. Hoping breakfast will revitalize me.

  16. Adee Avatar
    Adee

    Good morning Hamsters. Another gorgeous fall day rang in at 58 this morning, still that wonderful blue sky, and a bit softer breeze. What’s not to like?

    Go Astros.

  17. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    Only problem is it was the Dodgers.

    Hey, I proudly root for any National League team against those other guys.

    Except one. Now.

  18. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    13 Shannon

    Interesting bit of trivia: The Diamondbacks fired AJ Hinch in 2010 and promoted Kirk Gibson to take his place as manager.

  19. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    The human Ken doll now wants to be a Barbie doll and is in the process of transition.

  20. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    Victimization as a weapon to attack the essence of justice.

    Alice Randall at NBC News:

    And the book cannot continue to be taught as if every person in the classroom is white, upper middle class and needs to be prodded into being Scout. It should be taught by asking questions about why there are no black characters with agency in the novel, by wrapping it in with the history of the Scottsboro boys — a group of black teenagers falsely accused of raping two white women — and through raising questions about how “Mockingbird” (and American history) complicates the modern “believe victims” movement.

    Brendan O’Neill at Medium:

    NBC News published an extraordinary article this week. One of those articles where the headline’s enough to make you want to resign from the human race and live out your days in a yurt in the arse-end of nowhere. ‘Why Are We Still Teaching To Kill A Mockingbird In Schools?’, the headline asked. Or rather baited. The piece is full of the usual guff, about how Harper Lee’s classic is an “adult fairytale” unfit for younger children, how its use of the N-word could make black schoolkids feel insecure, etc, etc. But there’s something else in the article, too, something that makes it noteworthy in the current, rape-culture-obsessed moment: its concern that Lee’s book might discourage people from believing women who say they’ve been raped.

    and,

    It is not accidental that Mockingbird’s focus is a false accusation of rape. Accusations of rape were a key weapon in the armoury of racists in the American South. As everyone will know, black men were frequently lynched on the basis of accusations of rape. Others were lucky and were only imprisoned. What is less well known is that the culture around this racist weaponisation of rape accusations was strikingly similar to today’s “Believe Victims” movement. It likewise frowned upon scepticism, sought to protect women from cross-examination, and created a climate in which accusation alone was enough to destroy a man (a black man, in any event).

  21. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    I liked Hinch from day one. When it comes to communication he’s the Anti-Belichick. And well-spoken to boot.

  22. squawkbox Avatar
    squawkbox

    Texpat
    That is a great article on the Ken Burn’s mess about Viet Nam. I made the mistake of watching one chapter of the series and I was totally pissed. I can give many examples of anecdotal evidence that contradicts Burn’s assertions but Mr. Owens has thoroughly debunked Burns with his concrete evidence.

    BTW I am no fan of Ken Burns. Burns is a master of finding those voices that support his predetermined assumptions. Fair and balanced? not when burns is involved in the story telling.

  23. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    23 Squawk

    I refused to watch Burn’s documentary on Vietnam.

    The damned shame is he is such a talented filmmaker and intuitively understands the uninformed, historically ignorant audience he has. Burns knows how to subtly, yet sublimely, embed his preconceived notions and assumptions into a convincing narrative.

    I’ve been a Mac Owens fan forever and I meant to publish this review last week, but got sidetracked.

  24. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    Gutierrez worries that algebra and geometry perpetuate privilege because “emphasizing terms like Pythagorean theorem and pi” give the impression that math “was largely developed by Greeks and other Europeans.”

    Well, of course, every time I couldn’t get an algebraic or geometric problem solved correctly, I blamed it on Greek supremacy and privilege !

    A math education professor at the University of Illinois argued in a newly published book that algebraic and geometry skills perpetuate “unearned privilege” among whites.

    Rochelle Gutierrez, a professor at the University of Illinois, made the claim in a new anthology for math teachers, arguing that teachers must be aware of the “politics that mathematics brings” in society.

    “On many levels, mathematics itself operates as Whiteness. Who gets credit for doing and developing mathematics, who is capable in mathematics, and who is seen as part of the mathematical community is generally viewed as White,” Gutierrez argued.

    Gutierrez also worries that algebra and geometry perpetuate privilege, fretting that “curricula emphasizing terms like Pythagorean theorem and pi perpetuate a perception that mathematics was largely developed by Greeks and other Europeans.”

    This is painfully stupid. Sooner, rather than later, American taxpayers are going to start closing the public wallet on these idiots.

  25. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Too bad about Ken Burns. Granted it’s been a while but I really liked his PBS documentary on the Civil War.

  26. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    #6 Texpat, thanks, I just wanted to check and see if I’d lost my mind.

  27. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    If anyone is interested, I posted this last night;
    #46 Super Dave says:
    October 23, 2017 at 8:50 pm

    OK, I just stopped by and have not had time to look at the Filipino Gun Works, but even most of the uninformed folks know about the famed Guns of the Khyber Pass between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Those guys have been copying British weapons since the19th century. So, without actually seeing this video, I’ll not comment. Just remember, necessity is the mother of invention, or in this case copying existing firearms. Just to dang busy to participate today and I hate that!
    Y’all can now go back to your Rat Killin’.

  28. Hamous Avatar

    I thought Burns’ doc on baseball was excellent. I also liked the one on the War of Northern Aggression, mainly just to listen to Shelby Foote.

  29. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    I watched the early episodes of the Burns series because that was the period on which I wanted to concentrate.

    Burns is very good at what he does and the format is entertaining.

    But when you’re watching a production by a guy bankrolled by the biggest libs in the country, you know going in that you’re being chauffeured towards a predetermined conclusion.

    Most historians are biased, if not downright liars.

    Thanks for posting the Owens piece.

  30. Hamous Avatar

    From Burns’ Baseball I always remember him interviewing Brooklyn fans about Walter O’Malley moving the Dodgers to LA. One of the comments always stuck with me:

    If a Brooklyn man finds himself in a room with Hitler, Stalin, and O’Malley, but has only two bullets, what does he do? Shoot O’Malley twice.

  31. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    #25

    Well it’s the next logical step as it was always said if doing good in school you were acting all white. I don’t know what my excuse should be.

  32. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    Lots of homeowners in my neck of the woods have given up on CoH services to haul away anything that’s not already gone since Harvey. Today there is a paid logging service that is hauling a wood chipper around and clearing away piles of broken trees. I imagine they line up the customers ahead of time, if for nothing else, to be sure they can get the equipment up and down the streets. The people across the street from me — the Big Lots family who theoretically consist of 1 adult male, 1 adult female, and 3-5 minor children, and yet have between 3 and 7 cars and trucks parked in their driveway and nearby curbs all the time — signed up to get rid of a huge branch that fell off a tree in their yard over 2 months ago. They put some cuts on it to get it to pile up on a corner of their lawn — now revealed to be dead, of course.

    Other neighbors are signing up for private recycling services. And there have been some private trash hauls to the city dumps, in addition to the many badly flooded homes that still have construction dumpsters parked in their driveways.

    I’m not done with my cleanup, but I’m in no hurry at all.

  33. Hamous Avatar

    Disco maybe.

    Please tell me you’re joking. Please.

  34. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    Other than that one pair of bell bottom corduroys you can still respect me. 😀

  35. Hamous Avatar

    I had one pair of jeans with a spacer sewn in to make’em bell bottoms. All my corduroys were “boot cut” so they’d fit over my dingo boots 😉

  36. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    Yep, I had a pair of dingo boots. Mostly though I wore cowboy boots.

  37. Hamous Avatar

    I bet Katfish still wears dingo boots (or a facsimile) 😉

  38. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    Jeff Flake is out. Don’t let the door hit ya.

  39. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    HALAMISH, West Bank — The terrorist who killed Yosef Salomon, his son and his daughter, on Friday night knocked on the door of the Salomon home in the settlement of Halamish, and the family opened it thinking he was a guest who had come to celebrate the birth of their grandson, a neighbor said late Saturday.

    The daughter, Chaya Salomon, 46, and son, Elad Salomon, 36, were named Saturday night along with their father, 70. The names were released once other family members had been notified following the end of Shabbat.

    The three were killed when 19-year-old Omar al-Abed, a Palestinian from a nearby village, burst into the home armed with a large knife and began stabbing members of the family. There were apparently 10 people in the house, enjoying their Shabbat eve meal, when he entered. The gathering was a festive one, marking the birth of the new grandson.

    If you are tempted by delusions there will be peace with Palestinians anytime soon, go here and see the video of the murderer’s mother.

  40. Hamous Avatar

    Flake was a Bobolicious-style “Libertarian”.

  41. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    McCain likes him, that’s enough for me.

  42. phil Avatar
    phil

    No speeches from Flake the fake when Ottila the Kenyan was in office. Guess he’s also upset that his Deep State goddess didn’t get elected.

    Shilly said she broke her toe
    fetching tiny cups of jo
    Ferris M was called in
    to investigate this latest spin

    It seems Ferris M found out
    Shill was tripped by Russian trout
    Trumpy stuck it tween her toes
    by cutting through her pantyhose

    So tuck some uranium under her chin
    and get ready for more Deep State spin
    She’ll sell it for some Russian loot
    To fund Slick’s upskirts koochie-kooch

    Beware the savage jaw.

  43. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    Other neighbors are signing up for private recycling services.

    I can understand someone getting fed up and hiring someone to haul off their demolition debris.

    But are you saying people are actually paying a private contractor to haul off their separated garbage?

  44. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    Streaming for papists!

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  45. Hamous Avatar

    Steaming for papists!

    I was intrigued as to what this was going to be about. Crabs? Oysters? Mussels? Dumplings?

  46. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    Kershaw could be Jeff Bridges little brother.

  47. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    Wife thinks he looks like the second Two and a Half Men guy.

  48. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    I had to look up dingo boots because I had never heard the term before. Now that I’ve seen ’em, I can’t place any time or venue where I noticed such boots being worn. But if they were under jeans, might not be enough visible to ID them.

  49. Hamous Avatar

    I can’t place any time or venue where I noticed such boots being worn.

    Early ’70s Junior High Schools.

  50. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    Jeff Bridges has a brother, but he’s older and he is the actor, Beau Bridges.

  51. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    Sorry, but we were sh!tkickers and goatropers who wouldn’t be caught in anything but Justin, Nocona or Tony Lama boots back in the day. (and that was back when Tony Lama was a real quality boot)

  52. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #46 Shannon
    CoH recycling is not “separated”. There is a green bin on wheels, only slightly smaller than the black bin that holds a week’s work of trash. Recycling bin can hold paper, cardboard, most plastics, and metal cans. And yep, I hear people are paypal’ing $10 to the private recycler, who will take the contents of your green bin.

  53. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    Ohh, Benson. RIP sir.

  54. Hamous Avatar

    Regular trash in the black bin, recycle trash in the green bin. How is that not separated?

  55. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    $10…..per pickup? Per week? Per month? etc etc

  56. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    I love Jansen’s old timey motion.

  57. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    I’m going to assume it’s $40 a month. Why?
    Won’t the City pick up the unsorted garbage anyway?
    Which you’re already paying for?

  58. Hamous Avatar

    They suspended recycling pickup because of the mountains of other waste they’ve had to pick up after Harvey. I assume it’s a manpower issue. Technically, we don’t pay for garbage pickup. Nowhere does it show up on a bill of any sort.

  59. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    Yeah, I was aware of the suspension.

  60. Hamous Avatar

    A couple of weeks ago a lot of folks had their recycle cans out and the regular truck picked up both cans as landfill trash. I’ve been throwing everything in the black can since there’s no room in the green one.

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