For Shannon…
It’s Caturday!
And he’s faaaaaaaaaabulous!
Caturday Open Comments
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Liberal stupidity at work. I’ll bet in ten years there will not be enough left for zoo breeding programs.
She would rather see the three species become extinct in Texas than see a single animal hunted in what she says are “canned hunts.”
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Liberal stupidity at work. I’ll bet in ten years there will not be enough left for zoo breeding programs.
She would rather see the three species become extinct in Texas than see a single animal hunted in what she says are “canned hunts.”
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Watch out for April Fools Day – it’s coming to get you.
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Watch out for April Fools Day – it’s coming to get you.
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Not to mention the animals live a life in the semi-wild, not trapped in a zoo. Maybe they shoulda oughtta buy one of these ranches and take care of them.
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Not to mention the animals live a life in the semi-wild, not trapped in a zoo. Maybe they shoulda oughtta buy one of these ranches and take care of them.
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Well the day for first grandbaby’s shower has arrived, the anticipation and excitment building reachs a cresendo. Sweetie can come down from the ceiling and have a smoke. Now begins the buildup for May 16th.
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Well the day for first grandbaby’s shower has arrived, the anticipation and excitment building reachs a cresendo. Sweetie can come down from the ceiling and have a smoke. Now begins the buildup for May 16th.
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Nice to know that not all tigers are gay. The canukians in Calgary are helping
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2012/03/30/calgary-zoo-tiger-cubs.html -
Nice to know that not all tigers are gay. The canukians in Calgary are helping
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2012/03/30/calgary-zoo-tiger-cubs.html -
Oh, good morning all.
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Oh, good morning all.
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Well theyr’e replacing one A$$ clown with another; Current TV Dismisses Keith Olbermann
Forty-five minutes afterward, in a stream of Twitter messages, Mr. Olbermann threatened to take legal action against the channel and said its claims about him were untrue. In part because of the prospect of litigation, executives at Current declined to comment on the firing on Friday. But they immediately named as his replacement Eliot Spitzer, the former governor of New York, who took over Mr. Olbermann’s 8 p.m. time slot on Friday night.
What is “Current TV” and is it on Time Wormer?
Mornin’ Gang -
Well theyr’e replacing one A$$ clown with another; Current TV Dismisses Keith Olbermann
Forty-five minutes afterward, in a stream of Twitter messages, Mr. Olbermann threatened to take legal action against the channel and said its claims about him were untrue. In part because of the prospect of litigation, executives at Current declined to comment on the firing on Friday. But they immediately named as his replacement Eliot Spitzer, the former governor of New York, who took over Mr. Olbermann’s 8 p.m. time slot on Friday night.
What is “Current TV” and is it on Time Wormer?
Mornin’ Gang -
First of heard of this but I am still in the north country and it is a local story
Journalists, as a general rule, hate to let themselves become the story. However, there are exceptions, and one of them has just left the Houston Chronicle’s newsroom. Her name is Sarah Tressler, and she is a high society reporter with a degree from NYU who just happens to also rock the pole in a pair of six-inch heels and not terribly much else:
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First of heard of this but I am still in the north country and it is a local story
Journalists, as a general rule, hate to let themselves become the story. However, there are exceptions, and one of them has just left the Houston Chronicle’s newsroom. Her name is Sarah Tressler, and she is a high society reporter with a degree from NYU who just happens to also rock the pole in a pair of six-inch heels and not terribly much else:
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Current TV is another Al Gore failure.
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Current TV is another Al Gore failure.
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You just don’t realize what you take for granted until you don’t have it anymore.
In the nine years I have been in the NYC area, I have been unable to find a single place to buy yellow corn tortillas like those we have in Texas and northern Mexico. The only thing available around here are those crappy, limp (and stale) white corn tortillas popular in Central America. Likewise, what is called Mexican food in these parts is actually Guatemalan, El Salvadoran or Costa Rican very bland fare.
The I watched Diners, Drive-Ins & Dives last night and discovered this place in the Corona neighborhood of Queens.
This is huge, people. Even if I try to make Mexican dishes myself, it’s not anywhere near the same without genuine, fresh yellow corn tortillas. These people brought one of those old tortilla machines from Mexico you see everywhere down there and in South Texas along the border.
Oh, and these folks make real, homemade Mexican tamales, something else you cannot find here.
It’s only 20 miles away, but it can take up to an hour through some of the heaviest traffic in America. Nothing will stop me, though.
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You just don’t realize what you take for granted until you don’t have it anymore.
In the nine years I have been in the NYC area, I have been unable to find a single place to buy yellow corn tortillas like those we have in Texas and northern Mexico. The only thing available around here are those crappy, limp (and stale) white corn tortillas popular in Central America. Likewise, what is called Mexican food in these parts is actually Guatemalan, El Salvadoran or Costa Rican very bland fare.
The I watched Diners, Drive-Ins & Dives last night and discovered this place in the Corona neighborhood of Queens.
Tortilleria Nixtamal
This is huge, people. Even if I try to make Mexican dishes myself, it’s not anywhere near the same without genuine, fresh yellow corn tortillas. These people brought one of those old tortilla machines from Mexico you see everywhere down there and in South Texas along the border.
Oh, and these folks make real, homemade Mexican tamales, something else you cannot find here.
It’s only 20 miles away, but it can take up to an hour through some of the heaviest traffic in America. Nothing will stop me, though. -
This is interesting, I was unaware that there is a law against posting someone’s email address and posting spam. Maybe it’s an intentional harassment/disturbing the peace kind of thing. The story doesn’t name the blog.
The operator of a suburban Houston blog has been arrested for posting the email address of a city council candidate’s wife and inviting people to send viruses and spam to her email account.
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This is interesting, I was unaware that there is a law against posting someone’s email address and posting spam. Maybe it’s an intentional harassment/disturbing the peace kind of thing. The story doesn’t name the blog.
The operator of a suburban Houston blog has been arrested for posting the email address of a city council candidate’s wife and inviting people to send viruses and spam to her email account.
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Texpat
You can freeze them, but you must seal them well. You should use a vacuum pack machine for extended storage times. -
Texpat
You can freeze them, but you must seal them well. You should use a vacuum pack machine for extended storage times. -
#12 Shannon
Thanks, I’ll try it since I can’t drive to Queens all the time for tortillas.
What makes NYC such a fascinating place is no matter what it is in the world or where it’s from, if you are persistent, sooner or later, you will find somebody in the city making it.
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#12 Shannon
Thanks, I’ll try it since I can’t drive to Queens all the time for tortillas.
What makes NYC such a fascinating place is no matter what it is in the world or where it’s from, if you are persistent, sooner or later, you will find somebody in the city making it. -
8 texanadian
Yeah, it’s been a pretty big story.
The Houston Press outed her and has been having fun with it.
I hear she appeared on Good Morning America yesterday. The ABC video is down right now, but it is available through Gawker. -
8 texanadian
Yeah, it’s been a pretty big story.
The Houston Press outed her and has been having fun with it.
I hear she appeared on Good Morning America yesterday. The ABC video is down right now, but it is available through Gawker. -
G’Morning All
7 Super Dave
Current TV is the Al Gore network. (Really)
Olbitememan blames all of his past firings on “them”. Seems to me like the only common item in all of these incidents is Olberman. Hmmmmmmmmmmm……
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G’Morning All
7 Super Dave
Current TV is the Al Gore network. (Really)
Olbitememan blames all of his past firings on “them”. Seems to me like the only common item in all of these incidents is Olberman. Hmmmmmmmmmmm…… -
Hmph.
I thought we were gonna make up for missing National Cleavage Day.
Frikkin cats again.
Wagonburner has had too many rapid changes in altitude.
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Hmph.
I thought we were gonna make up for missing National Cleavage Day.
Frikkin cats again.
Wagonburner has had too many rapid changes in altitude. -
Rats! I didn’t win the $640M Mega Million lottery. Mrs. Shamaal says that I have to actually buy a ticket, but I’m not that keen on self- identifying for a voluntary tax on the stupid.
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Rats! I didn’t win the $640M Mega Million lottery. Mrs. Shamaal says that I have to actually buy a ticket, but I’m not that keen on self- identifying for a voluntary tax on the stupid.
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How many ‘terminations’ will need to take place before ‘Queef Olberputz’ is relegated to permanent anonymity ?
This loser was untold levels beyond his wissin ‘Peter Principal limit’ as a
sportscasterwanna-be-sports-hack! -
How many ‘terminations’ will need to take place before ‘Queef Olberputz’ is relegated to permanent anonymity ?
This loser was untold levels beyond his wissin ‘Peter Principal limit’ as asportscasterwanna-be-sports-hack! -
Now if only the rest of the idiots in the country would the facts before flying off the handle.
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Now if only the rest of the idiots in the country would the facts before flying off the handle.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577313741463447670.html?mod=WSJ_article_LatestHeadlines -
Yesterday’s #63
Maybe that’s because those evil socons you’re so askeered of don’t really care either whether your gay. They just don’t feel obliged to announce to the entire world that they don’t care.
Two things: You are correct in that these days, they care less about teh gayz than they did when they flocked to the voting booth in elections of days gone by, and proudly hung their chads in favor of needless, discriminatory, and harmful laws. I’m pleased that we agree on that much.
But when you assert that I ‘fear’ the so-cons, you are entirely mistaken. Disgusted, saddened, and even angry? Sure. But I have no need to fear them. I have facts on my side. All they have are imaginary boogey men and a desire to control the lives of others.
On a brighter note, Happy Caturday everyone! Adopted couple finally moved out yesterday, so for the first time my nest is truly empty. My yellow rose of Texas arrives in 14 days (and 5 hours, but who’s counting…) so I have some serious commune cleaning to accomplish. Heck, I might even wear pants while I’m about the tasks.
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Yesterday’s #63
Maybe that’s because those evil socons you’re so askeered of don’t really care either whether your gay. They just don’t feel obliged to announce to the entire world that they don’t care.
Two things: You are correct in that these days, they care less about teh gayz than they did when they flocked to the voting booth in elections of days gone by, and proudly hung their chads in favor of needless, discriminatory, and harmful laws. I’m pleased that we agree on that much.
But when you assert that I ‘fear’ the so-cons, you are entirely mistaken. Disgusted, saddened, and even angry? Sure. But I have no need to fear them. I have facts on my side. All they have are imaginary boogey men and a desire to control the lives of others.
On a brighter note, Happy Caturday everyone! Adopted couple finally moved out yesterday, so for the first time my nest is truly empty. My yellow rose of Texas arrives in 14 days (and 5 hours, but who’s counting…) so I have some serious commune cleaning to accomplish. Heck, I might even wear pants while I’m about the tasks. -
#19 texacan
Now if only the rest of the idiots in the country would the facts before flying off the handle.
Flying off the handle is the only exercise some people get.
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#19 texacan
Now if only the rest of the idiots in the country would the facts before flying off the handle.
Flying off the handle is the only exercise some people get.
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1 gtotracker
I got “miffed” (Grandma language) at that, too. The whole exotic species thing got started by several of the big, society connected ranches bringing exotics in for show. Even though they put up high fences, animals escaped to other ranches, and having no natural predators, the population exploded. At first the ranchers charged exorbitant prices for hunting them, but they kept multiplying. There are still a few ranchers that advertise out of state for “safaris”, but most ranchers just want them off their land. Whitetails and livestock live together quite well because the Whitetail is a forb and low brush browser and the livestock are grazers, as are the exotics. All of the regular ranches I have hunted on beg you to take all you want.
Without natural predators or man made control, the exotics will breed themselves out of existence. Then the do-gooders will blame it us.
/spits
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1 gtotracker
I got “miffed” (Grandma language) at that, too. The whole exotic species thing got started by several of the big, society connected ranches bringing exotics in for show. Even though they put up high fences, animals escaped to other ranches, and having no natural predators, the population exploded. At first the ranchers charged exorbitant prices for hunting them, but they kept multiplying. There are still a few ranchers that advertise out of state for “safaris”, but most ranchers just want them off their land. Whitetails and livestock live together quite well because the Whitetail is a forb and low brush browser and the livestock are grazers, as are the exotics. All of the regular ranches I have hunted on beg you to take all you want.
Without natural predators or man made control, the exotics will breed themselves out of existence. Then the do-gooders will blame it us.
/spits -
Nice o/c pic. I never realized before just how big a tiger’s tongue can be.
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Nice o/c pic. I never realized before just how big a tiger’s tongue can be.
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Joke of the day
WH: Obama thinks Verrilli did a ‘terrific job’
Obama is upbeat, according to Deputy Press Secretary Josh Earnest.
“I feel confident in saying that the President shares the opinion of our White House staff that Mr. Verrilli did a terrific job in representing the interests of the government for the Supreme Court, but also representing the interests of the 2.5 million young adults who have health insurance coverage through their parent’s plan because of the Affordable Care Act,” Earnest said, reminding reporters of Americans who have access to “free preventative coverage” because of the law.
“That’s essentially the role that Mr. Verrilli was charged with and everyone at the White House was pleased with his performance,” he concluded.
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Joke of the day
WH: Obama thinks Verrilli did a ‘terrific job’
Obama is upbeat, according to Deputy Press Secretary Josh Earnest.
“I feel confident in saying that the President shares the opinion of our White House staff that Mr. Verrilli did a terrific job in representing the interests of the government for the Supreme Court, but also representing the interests of the 2.5 million young adults who have health insurance coverage through their parent’s plan because of the Affordable Care Act,” Earnest said, reminding reporters of Americans who have access to “free preventative coverage” because of the law.
“That’s essentially the role that Mr. Verrilli was charged with and everyone at the White House was pleased with his performance,” he concluded. -
bob #20;
But when you assert that I ‘fear’ the so-cons, you are entirely mistaken.
So if the socons take over our government you’ll wear a shirt “Socon? Fine by me”? Or “Socon? That makes me sad”?
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bob #20;
But when you assert that I ‘fear’ the so-cons, you are entirely mistaken.
So if the socons take over our government you’ll wear a shirt “Socon? Fine by me”? Or “Socon? That makes me sad”?
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Perhaps if Bobby Rush and Nancy Pelosi ever got around to actually doing something, there would be fewer stories like this, and less need to don a piece of clothing in Congress in what amounts to an empty and silly gesture.
Hoodie-Wearing Gunmen Kill 1, Wound 5 in Bobby Rush’s Chicago District
by Dan Riehl 19 hoursFormer Black Panther Rep. Bobby Rush (D-IL) made quite a fuss when he donned a “hoodie” during a speech in the U.S. House of Representatives until he was escorted out. At the time, former Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) “applauded his courage” for doing so.
Meanwhile, back home in Rush’s district, two men wearing hooded sweatshirts, or “hoodies,” were the shooters in an incident that left one dead and five injured.
In fact, during a span of six-hours Thursday night, 13 people were shot, leaving two dead in Chicago. It would seem it takes more courage to simply walk down the street in Rush’s district than it does to wear a hooded sweatshirt in the House of Representatives by way of a stunt in a bizarre tribute to a young man shot and killed in Florida during a shooting incident still under investigation.
(This is from a separate police report for the day)
Police in Chicago said there were three other shootings during Thursday’s stretch of violence.
– Shortly after 5 p.m. Thursday, David Gully, 31, was fatally shot in the head across the street from his South Side home. Suspects have been questioned and several weapons have been recovered, police said.
– About 10:30 p.m. Thursday, four people standing in a parking lot on Chicago’s West Side were wounded when a gunman fired at them from a moving vehicle, police said.
– Two other men were wounded in separate shootings on the South Side – one in the leg and one in the buttocks.
The shootings are part of a larger uptick in violence across the city this year. From Jan. 1 to March 29 of this year, there were 474 shootings, 101 of them fatal, according to the Chicago Police Department.
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Perhaps if Bobby Rush and Nancy Pelosi ever got around to actually doing something, there would be fewer stories like this, and less need to don a piece of clothing in Congress in what amounts to an empty and silly gesture.
Hoodie-Wearing Gunmen Kill 1, Wound 5 in Bobby Rush’s Chicago District
by Dan Riehl 19 hours
Former Black Panther Rep. Bobby Rush (D-IL) made quite a fuss when he donned a “hoodie” during a speech in the U.S. House of Representatives until he was escorted out. At the time, former Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) “applauded his courage” for doing so.
Meanwhile, back home in Rush’s district, two men wearing hooded sweatshirts, or “hoodies,” were the shooters in an incident that left one dead and five injured.
In fact, during a span of six-hours Thursday night, 13 people were shot, leaving two dead in Chicago. It would seem it takes more courage to simply walk down the street in Rush’s district than it does to wear a hooded sweatshirt in the House of Representatives by way of a stunt in a bizarre tribute to a young man shot and killed in Florida during a shooting incident still under investigation.(This is from a separate police report for the day)
Police in Chicago said there were three other shootings during Thursday’s stretch of violence.
– Shortly after 5 p.m. Thursday, David Gully, 31, was fatally shot in the head across the street from his South Side home. Suspects have been questioned and several weapons have been recovered, police said.
– About 10:30 p.m. Thursday, four people standing in a parking lot on Chicago’s West Side were wounded when a gunman fired at them from a moving vehicle, police said.
– Two other men were wounded in separate shootings on the South Side – one in the leg and one in the buttocks.
The shootings are part of a larger uptick in violence across the city this year. From Jan. 1 to March 29 of this year, there were 474 shootings, 101 of them fatal, according to the Chicago Police Department. -
#26 OTL
Very funny, ya old rascal!
🙂 -
#26 OTL
Very funny, ya old rascal!
🙂 -
#22 Shan
Interesting, so the offense wasn’t necessarily posting her name/address without consent it was the solicitation of virus and emails with “intent to do harm” and that he owned the social networking site.
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#22 Shan
Interesting, so the offense wasn’t necessarily posting her name/address without consent it was the solicitation of virus and emails with “intent to do harm” and that he owned the social networking site. -
29 mharper42
I just want you an TT to stay up to date on the latest products.
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29 mharper42
I just want you an TT to stay up to date on the latest products.
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But when you assert that I ‘fear’ the so-cons
I believe I said you’re askeered of them. Apparently you also don’t think they have the right to vote their conscience if it conflicts with your libertine dogma. Fortunately that’s how our republic works (for the most part). You wanna vote gay? Fine by me, but quit telling me I have to. That’s how “tolerance” really works.
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But when you assert that I ‘fear’ the so-cons
I believe I said you’re askeered of them. Apparently you also don’t think they have the right to vote their conscience if it conflicts with your libertine dogma. Fortunately that’s how our republic works (for the most part). You wanna vote gay? Fine by me, but quit telling me I have to. That’s how “tolerance” really works.
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#32 Hammie
My post from a coupla days ago
Pretty well sums up my views on social issues. -
Early Saturday Matinee.
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Early Saturday Matinee.
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Now if only the rest of the idiots in the country would the facts before flying off the handle.
Interesting case, a water well drilled in 2005 becomes contaminated in 2010 with natural gas after fracked NG wells are drilled in 2009. The owner claims that the water can be ignited and testing shows that the water has 864 units of methane, the limit is 5.
The EPA appears to be unable to prove that the contamination came specifically from those wells through “fingerprint analysis”. The state claims that the well went bad by itself and fracking of the NG wells was just a coincidence (it does happen). Curiously, it was the state that contacted the EPA.
Resolution is that well owners will take samples and provide to the government. Unsaid was whether compensation was made to the water well owner.For those who like to read this type of stuff. Keep in mind this is a large file of accounts, claims made in one file are recanted in later files when more facts become available.
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Now if only the rest of the idiots in the country would the facts before flying off the handle.
Interesting case, a water well drilled in 2005 becomes contaminated in 2010 with natural gas after fracked NG wells are drilled in 2009. The owner claims that the water can be ignited and testing shows that the water has 864 units of methane, the limit is 5.
The EPA appears to be unable to prove that the contamination came specifically from those wells through “fingerprint analysis”. The state claims that the well went bad by itself and fracking of the NG wells was just a coincidence (it does happen). Curiously, it was the state that contacted the EPA.
Resolution is that well owners will take samples and provide to the government. Unsaid was whether compensation was made to the water well owner.
For those who like to read this type of stuff. Keep in mind this is a large file of accounts, claims made in one file are recanted in later files when more facts become available. -
There IS new video, different from the ABC video, of George Zimmerman arriving at the po po.
Now, new video has emerged making ABC’s contention look even more doubtful. As with the first video, an officer can clearly be seen looking at the back of Zimmerman’s head, as though he were inspecting an injury.
In addition, in the newly released six-minute video below, it appears as though there may have been tape across George Zimmerman’s nose throughout a significant portion of the video. That would have been the case were his nose injured or broken by a punch from Martin, as has been claimed. It would make his story entirely consistent.
While I’m still not convinced that we know all the facts, I’m fairly certain that his story about having a physical altercation with Miller, and sustaining injuries in it, are true and that any allegation of lying or a cover up by the cops are the usual left wing victim pimping.
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There IS new video, different from the ABC video, of George Zimmerman arriving at the po po.
Now, new video has emerged making ABC’s contention look even more doubtful. As with the first video, an officer can clearly be seen looking at the back of Zimmerman’s head, as though he were inspecting an injury.
In addition, in the newly released six-minute video below, it appears as though there may have been tape across George Zimmerman’s nose throughout a significant portion of the video. That would have been the case were his nose injured or broken by a punch from Martin, as has been claimed. It would make his story entirely consistent.While I’m still not convinced that we know all the facts, I’m fairly certain that his story about having a physical altercation with Miller, and sustaining injuries in it, are true and that any allegation of lying or a cover up by the cops are the usual left wing victim pimping.
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In the wish I hadn’t said that category ……
“What else has she done? Female, wounded veteran … ehhh,”
His opponent lost both legs and part of an arm while in a chopper hit by an RPG, then went on to work in the VA.
Luckily Walsh is a member of a group that doesn’t see offense in these kind of remarks.
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In the wish I hadn’t said that category ……
“What else has she done? Female, wounded veteran … ehhh,”
His opponent lost both legs and part of an arm while in a chopper hit by an RPG, then went on to work in the VA.
Luckily Walsh is a member of a group that doesn’t see offense in these kind of remarks. -
#1GTO: This is yet another case that defines the true conservationists as hunters and not the do-gooder nanny state, animal rights activists wiss-heads. Early in the last century, it was the hunters that got hunting seasons passed to protect the animals during their breeding season and the result is more white tailed deer harvested in Texas every year than existed in Texas in 1900. It was the hunters who were the driving force behind the re-introduction of the wild turkey to regions of Texas where they had been wiped out and now they Texas wild turkey (several different sub species) is plentiful all over the state. In your linked article it speaks of an animal on the brink of extinction, and actually extinct form its native habitat (Africa) yet thriving here in Texas, the resurgence of this animal is due almost exclusively to the ultimate end of the hunter, who actually pays big $ to be able to hunt them. By the efforts of the hunter, the species can now be reintroduced into their native habitats, healthy, genetically diverse and able to re-populate on their own. In the land of those who actually think, this would be trumpeted as a rousing success, alas, in the land of the left wing nanny-staters, it is deemed a failure because someone actually kills the animals for fun and we can’t have people killing animals for fun. That, the woman actually said she would rather the animals go extinct than have people hunt them for sport, demonstrates that her counsel merits no consideration. Unfortunately that same lack of logic tends to define the left side of the political equation.
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#1GTO: This is yet another case that defines the true conservationists as hunters and not the do-gooder nanny state, animal rights activists wiss-heads. Early in the last century, it was the hunters that got hunting seasons passed to protect the animals during their breeding season and the result is more white tailed deer harvested in Texas every year than existed in Texas in 1900. It was the hunters who were the driving force behind the re-introduction of the wild turkey to regions of Texas where they had been wiped out and now they Texas wild turkey (several different sub species) is plentiful all over the state. In your linked article it speaks of an animal on the brink of extinction, and actually extinct form its native habitat (Africa) yet thriving here in Texas, the resurgence of this animal is due almost exclusively to the ultimate end of the hunter, who actually pays big $ to be able to hunt them. By the efforts of the hunter, the species can now be reintroduced into their native habitats, healthy, genetically diverse and able to re-populate on their own. In the land of those who actually think, this would be trumpeted as a rousing success, alas, in the land of the left wing nanny-staters, it is deemed a failure because someone actually kills the animals for fun and we can’t have people killing animals for fun. That, the woman actually said she would rather the animals go extinct than have people hunt them for sport, demonstrates that her counsel merits no consideration. Unfortunately that same lack of logic tends to define the left side of the political equation.
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I have it on good authority that gay tigers die out after one generation and can only adopt. 😉
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I have it on good authority that gay tigers die out after one generation and can only adopt. 😉
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Waiting for our Half Nubian Prince to comment…
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Waiting for our Half Nubian Prince to comment…
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Tammy Duckworth is back? I remember Feagan touting her as being an enshrined saint six years ago. IIRC she lost very, very badly and had to be thrown a bone by the Obama Administration.
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Tammy Duckworth is back? I remember Feagan touting her as being an enshrined saint six years ago. IIRC she lost very, very badly and had to be thrown a bone by the Obama Administration.
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Found on Drudge under a different headline, we have this:
HEADLINE:Is Conservatism Our Default Ideology?
I have more than a little problem with the way “conservatism” is defined in the study and the obvious bias against same by the researchers:
A research team led by University of Arkansas psychologist Scott Eidelman argues that conservatism — which the researchers identify as “an emphasis on personal responsibility, acceptance of hierarchy, and a preference for the status quo” — may be our default ideology. If we don’t have the time or energy to give a matter sufficient thought, we tend to accept the conservative argument.
Isn’t it interesting that they did not mention smaller government, greater personal freedom, and over-all resistance to the nanny-staters? A preference for the status quo is such an archaic and woefully incomplete concept to apply to conservatism it is laughable.
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Found on Drudge under a different headline, we have this:
HEADLINE:Is Conservatism Our Default Ideology?
I have more than a little problem with the way “conservatism” is defined in the study and the obvious bias against same by the researchers:
A research team led by University of Arkansas psychologist Scott Eidelman argues that conservatism — which the researchers identify as “an emphasis on personal responsibility, acceptance of hierarchy, and a preference for the status quo” — may be our default ideology. If we don’t have the time or energy to give a matter sufficient thought, we tend to accept the conservative argument.
Isn’t it interesting that they did not mention smaller government, greater personal freedom, and over-all resistance to the nanny-staters? A preference for the status quo is such an archaic and woefully incomplete concept to apply to conservatism it is laughable.
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#38 Bonecrusher –
I advised my son to find a job he would gladly do for free then find someone to pay him to do it. He became a biologist for the Fish & Wildlife Service. For a while, he counted woodpeckers on an east coast army facility. Then he moved back to Texas to help save the endangered Attwater’s Prairie Chicken.
He told me once, “If we could get the fire ant placed on the endangered species list, there wouldn’t be a single fire ant left in the wild in ten years.”
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#38 Bonecrusher –
I advised my son to find a job he would gladly do for free then find someone to pay him to do it. He became a biologist for the Fish & Wildlife Service. For a while, he counted woodpeckers on an east coast army facility. Then he moved back to Texas to help save the endangered Attwater’s Prairie Chicken.
He told me once, “If we could get the fire ant placed on the endangered species list, there wouldn’t be a single fire ant left in the wild in ten years.” -
Waiting for our Half Nubian Prince to comment…
He’s been downgraded? How the mighty have fallen. I remember when he was a whole Nubian and a Kenyan too. That was back in the day when Saddam Hussein was Jewish because he spoke a semitic language. 😉
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Waiting for our Half Nubian Prince to comment…
He’s been downgraded? How the mighty have fallen. I remember when he was a whole Nubian and a Kenyan too. That was back in the day when Saddam Hussein was Jewish because he spoke a semitic language. 😉
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This dude, in an attempt to punk the Italian MSM, winds up punking global MSM to boot.
De Benedetti denied he was a simple hoaxer fooling papers for money. “I wanted to see how weak the media was in Italy,” he said, claiming he was only paid between €20 and €40 for an interview. “The Italian press never checks anything, especially if it is close to their political line, which is why the rightwing paper Libero liked Roth’s attacks on Obama.”
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This dude, in an attempt to punk the Italian MSM, winds up punking global MSM to boot.
De Benedetti denied he was a simple hoaxer fooling papers for money. “I wanted to see how weak the media was in Italy,” he said, claiming he was only paid between €20 and €40 for an interview. “The Italian press never checks anything, especially if it is close to their political line, which is why the rightwing paper Libero liked Roth’s attacks on Obama.”
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#37 Shamaal:
In the “I learned how to take quotes out of context and completely twist and mis-characterize what a person has actually said in order to make them look bad” category:
In the wish I hadn’t said that category ……
“What else has she done? Female, wounded veteran … ehhh,”
His opponent lost both legs and part of an arm while in a chopper hit by an RPG, then went on to work in the VA.
What he also said was:
“I have so much respect for what she did in the fact that she sacrificed her body for this country,” said Walsh, simultaneously lowering his voice as he leaned forward before pausing for dramatic effect. “Ehhh. Now let’s move on.”
Not actually the same thing, huh?
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#37 Shamaal:
In the “I learned how to take quotes out of context and completely twist and mis-characterize what a person has actually said in order to make them look bad” category:In the wish I hadn’t said that category ……
“What else has she done? Female, wounded veteran … ehhh,”
His opponent lost both legs and part of an arm while in a chopper hit by an RPG, then went on to work in the VA.What he also said was:
“I have so much respect for what she did in the fact that she sacrificed her body for this country,” said Walsh, simultaneously lowering his voice as he leaned forward before pausing for dramatic effect. “Ehhh. Now let’s move on.”
Not actually the same thing, huh?
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#46 FA: You weren’t actually looking for intellectual honesty from the shamizzle now were you?
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#46 FA: You weren’t actually looking for intellectual honesty from the shamizzle now were you?
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#36 sarge
**snikker**He said “po po”.
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#36 sarge
**snikker**
He said “po po”. -
#46 fat one
As usual I posted the link so folks can read for themselves. I quoted the disrespectful part; I keep forgetting the situational philosophy aspect when dealing with Republicans. But let’s post the rest of the enchilada:
“What else has she done? Female, wounded veteran … ehhh,” he continued. “She is nothing more than a handpicked Washington bureaucrat. David Axelrod, Rahm Emanuel just picked her up and dropped her into this district.”
Not actually the same thing, huh?
Legless veterans picked up and dropped into districts, charming.
But don’t take my word for it, what does a group dedicated to electing those who fight into office, instead of those who stay at home, say:
“Just when you think Congressman Joe Walsh couldn’t sink any lower, he insults the service and sacrifice of our Veterans, particularly one like Tammy who lost her limbs in the line of duty. Congressman Walsh owes Tammy Duckworth and all Veterans an apology for his outrageous disrespect for their service,” said Jon Soltz, Iraq War Veteran and Chairman of VoteVets.org PAC. “But it’s not just that. If you think working for America’s veterans at the VA both in Washington and Illinois is nothing, if you think working to improve the economic lives of veterans is nothing, then Joe Walsh’s record is below nothing.
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#46 fat one
As usual I posted the link so folks can read for themselves. I quoted the disrespectful part; I keep forgetting the situational philosophy aspect when dealing with Republicans. But let’s post the rest of the enchilada:“What else has she done? Female, wounded veteran … ehhh,” he continued. “She is nothing more than a handpicked Washington bureaucrat. David Axelrod, Rahm Emanuel just picked her up and dropped her into this district.”
Not actually the same thing, huh?
Legless veterans picked up and dropped into districts, charming.
But don’t take my word for it, what does a group dedicated to electing those who fight into office, instead of those who stay at home, say:“Just when you think Congressman Joe Walsh couldn’t sink any lower, he insults the service and sacrifice of our Veterans, particularly one like Tammy who lost her limbs in the line of duty. Congressman Walsh owes Tammy Duckworth and all Veterans an apology for his outrageous disrespect for their service,” said Jon Soltz, Iraq War Veteran and Chairman of VoteVets.org PAC. “But it’s not just that. If you think working for America’s veterans at the VA both in Washington and Illinois is nothing, if you think working to improve the economic lives of veterans is nothing, then Joe Walsh’s record is below nothing.
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I can’t speak for the rest of the globe, but it is warm in Friendswood. Gypsy returned covered in mud, but for some reason does not care for the requisite hosing down and cleanup. Mrs Shamaal wants the yard cleaned up and something planted.
And she wants her vacuum cleaner, We’ve exhausted the search at local stores and will have to go online. Consumer reports rates a Hoover model as a best buy. We’ll swing by target, then throw in the towel and pay an internet retailer to send us one free of Texas tax. It’s hard to feel sympathy for some of the brick and mortar businesses.
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I can’t speak for the rest of the globe, but it is warm in Friendswood. Gypsy returned covered in mud, but for some reason does not care for the requisite hosing down and cleanup. Mrs Shamaal wants the yard cleaned up and something planted.
And she wants her vacuum cleaner, We’ve exhausted the search at local stores and will have to go online. Consumer reports rates a Hoover model as a best buy. We’ll swing by target, then throw in the towel and pay an internet retailer to send us one free of Texas tax. It’s hard to feel sympathy for some of the brick and mortar businesses. -
Now here’s an interesting dilemma
Presbyterian and Methodist get married and divorced. The court directs that religious decisions are made jointly. She has children baptized as Presbyterians he goes to court for contempt charges – she risks going to jail.
I’ve demonstrated my lack of knowledge on this baptism thing with another religion baptizing folks after they die. Are there rules for these things? Can he have them counter-baptized as Methodists just for the weekends? And why is a court involved? I thought they tried to stay out of these religion things. Is a parents duty to their children, their religion or the state? -
Now here’s an interesting dilemma
Presbyterian and Methodist get married and divorced. The court directs that religious decisions are made jointly. She has children baptized as Presbyterians he goes to court for contempt charges – she risks going to jail.
I’ve demonstrated my lack of knowledge on this baptism thing with another religion baptizing folks after they die. Are there rules for these things? Can he have them counter-baptized as Methodists just for the weekends? And why is a court involved? I thought they tried to stay out of these religion things. Is a parents duty to their children, their religion or the state? -
Fats and Shammy
You guys just don’t understand Joe. I think he is just an ordinary average guy.
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Fats and Shammy
You guys just don’t understand Joe. I think he is just an ordinary average guy. -
Or maybe he is just an ordinary average tea party type of guy.
/I hope not.
/Fire away I got all day.
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Or maybe he is just an ordinary average tea party type of guy.
/I hope not.
/Fire away I got all day. -
#51 Shammy, I traded some Amex points for a bag-less Dyson vacuum several years ago. I’m pleased with it, and have using it a lot today. It really sucks.
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#51 Shammy, I traded some Amex points for a bag-less Dyson vacuum several years ago. I’m pleased with it, and have using it a lot today. It really sucks.
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Seems Mr. Walsh really does not care for the rule of law. Heh. If I had pulled this stunt I would be getting used to an orange Montgomery County jump suit. He thinks he is immune to the summons of the court.
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Seems Mr. Walsh really does not care for the rule of law. Heh. If I had pulled this stunt I would be getting used to an orange Montgomery County jump suit. He thinks he is immune to the summons of the court.
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NCD coverage continues ………………
Half of those questioned admitted to using their cleavage as a secret weapon – whether it be to get served sooner at the bar, to make a lasting impression on a first date, or even to get out of a parking or speeding ticket.
…
Commenting on the outcome a spokesperson for Wonderbra, which commissioned the survey said: ‘Showing your cleavage is the embodiment of empowerment.’Yeah Baby!
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NCD coverage continues ………………
Half of those questioned admitted to using their cleavage as a secret weapon – whether it be to get served sooner at the bar, to make a lasting impression on a first date, or even to get out of a parking or speeding ticket.
…
Commenting on the outcome a spokesperson for Wonderbra, which commissioned the survey said: ‘Showing your cleavage is the embodiment of empowerment.’Yeah Baby!
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But the winner of the Diagram prize for strangest book title of the year is Cooking with Poo, reports the Guardian.
I’ve always preferred cooking with Piglet myself.
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But the winner of the Diagram prize for strangest book title of the year is Cooking with Poo, reports the Guardian.
I’ve always preferred cooking with Piglet myself.
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#32 Hamous, forgive me if I misinterpreted ‘askeered’ to mean afraid. Maybe I should have looked it up.
I believe I said you’re askeered of them. Apparently you also don’t think they have the right to vote their conscience if it conflicts with your libertine dogma…
As for the second part, I really do not understand how, even in your wildest biased dreams you could conclude that about me. I cherish your right to vote your mind as much as I do my own. Please explain what I have ever said that could rationally lead you to such a ridiculous and inaccurate conclusion.
You have the right to vote your mind, your conscious, and even your dogma if you so desire. I have the right to question your motivations, and the efficacy and wisdom of the policies you support on any basis, including their necessity, and their propensity to do harm. If you (or anyone) assert that big government garbage laws like DOMA, or the silly amendment to the Texas constitution that you (probably) voted for in 2006 are necessary, or that ‘traditional marriage’ is in need of defense, then I assert the burden of proof is on you. So far, I’ve seen nothing, from you or anyone else.
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#32 Hamous, forgive me if I misinterpreted ‘askeered’ to mean afraid. Maybe I should have looked it up.
I believe I said you’re askeered of them. Apparently you also don’t think they have the right to vote their conscience if it conflicts with your libertine dogma…
As for the second part, I really do not understand how, even in your wildest biased dreams you could conclude that about me. I cherish your right to vote your mind as much as I do my own. Please explain what I have ever said that could rationally lead you to such a ridiculous and inaccurate conclusion.
You have the right to vote your mind, your conscious, and even your dogma if you so desire. I have the right to question your motivations, and the efficacy and wisdom of the policies you support on any basis, including their necessity, and their propensity to do harm. If you (or anyone) assert that big government garbage laws like DOMA, or the silly amendment to the Texas constitution that you (probably) voted for in 2006 are necessary, or that ‘traditional marriage’ is in need of defense, then I assert the burden of proof is on you. So far, I’ve seen nothing, from you or anyone else. -
Katy Perry joins the Marines.
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Katy Perry joins the Marines.
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As requested, To The Dynamite Sheds, Part II: The Water Torture.
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As requested, To The Dynamite Sheds, Part II: The Water Torture.
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A day like today makes me wish I was down by an uncrowded one of these.
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A day like today makes me wish I was down by an uncrowded one of these.
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Where’s that confounded bridge?
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Where’s that confounded bridge?
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For me this is a constant state of mind.
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For me this is a constant state of mind.
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The bridge is here.
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The bridge is here.
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Heh.
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Heh.
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#62 sarge
Gypsy will sleep soundly tonight and looks forward to the next adventure.
The brown one ………….. 😉
Well Done -
#62 sarge
Gypsy will sleep soundly tonight and looks forward to the next adventure.
The brown one ………….. 😉
Well Done -
If Dayflowers were wiped off the face of the Earth tomorrow along with mosquitoes and Pharaoh Ants, I would not miss them.
These things appear to be impervious to every insecticide in my arsenal and must be rooted out by hand. They are one of those plants with break away stalks and a humongous root system from which to sprout. -
If Dayflowers were wiped off the face of the Earth tomorrow along with mosquitoes and Pharaoh Ants, I would not miss them.
These things appear to be impervious to every insecticide in my arsenal and must be rooted out by hand. They are one of those plants with break away stalks and a humongous root system from which to sprout. -
I feel like a BLT.
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I feel like a BLT.
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Little pink bridges for you and me.
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Little pink bridges for you and me.
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Hammie
I am more in the mood for a TV Dinner -
Hammie
I am more in the mood for a TV Dinner -
#62 Sarge 😀
Oh and feeding Scout the Bacon, priceless, I always knew that you were a good guy. -
#62 Sarge 😀
Oh and feeding Scout the Bacon, priceless, I always knew that you were a good guy. -
Well, I went down to the boat shed today and got the Sea Ray, I need to burn up the rest of last years’ gasmoline, the Boy was supposed to do that lastweek end but I guess he didn’t go far enough. He was out for about 3 hours and when I filled her up she only held 14 gallons so there was at least 10-12 gallons left. I doubled up on the fuel stabilizer just in case, although she ran just fine last weekend. My Bride is babysitting my Daughters two Pole-Cats tonight because She is @ the San Luis for Her second anniversary, so I told the Wife to make sure she left Richmond early tomorrow. …Yup, Life is GOOD! 😉
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Well, I went down to the boat shed today and got the Sea Ray, I need to burn up the rest of last years’ gasmoline, the Boy was supposed to do that lastweek end but I guess he didn’t go far enough. He was out for about 3 hours and when I filled her up she only held 14 gallons so there was at least 10-12 gallons left. I doubled up on the fuel stabilizer just in case, although she ran just fine last weekend. My Bride is babysitting my Daughters two Pole-Cats tonight because She is @ the San Luis for Her second anniversary, so I told the Wife to make sure she left Richmond early tomorrow. …Yup, Life is GOOD! 😉
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#62
Aw, Sarge, more Spam? -
#62
Aw, Sarge, more Spam? -
#75 Dave
My Bride is babysitting my Daughters two Pole-Cats tonight because She is @ the San Luis for Her second anniversary, so I told the Wife to make sure she left Richmond early tomorrow.
Dave, is this a coded message? The only part I really understand is “My Bride”. Translation, please? Who is doing what, and where, and why, ya know — the basics. In English?
🙂 -
#75 Dave
My Bride is babysitting my Daughters two Pole-Cats tonight because She is @ the San Luis for Her second anniversary, so I told the Wife to make sure she left Richmond early tomorrow.
Dave, is this a coded message? The only part I really understand is “My Bride”. Translation, please? Who is doing what, and where, and why, ya know — the basics. In English?
🙂 -
If anybody is a fan of early jazz like I am, there is a program on right now you would really enjoy. Phil Schapp is probably the reigning authority in America on the subject and has had a radio program on WKCR out of Columbia University for about 40 years.
Bix Beidercke, Charlie Parker, he’s got them all.
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If anybody is a fan of early jazz like I am, there is a program on right now you would really enjoy. Phil Schapp is probably the reigning authority in America on the subject and has had a radio program on WKCR out of Columbia University for about 40 years.
Bix Beidercke, Charlie Parker, he’s got them all.
2 hours left – listen here. -
#77 mharper42,….Huumm thought it was pretty much self explanatory, but here goes. This weekend is Daughters’ 2 nd wedding anniversary and my Wife is spending the night at her house, (last night and tonight) so she can let the “Pole Cats” (ferrets for you folks in Rio Linda) out and feed them. Daughter lives in Richmond so my Wife is in Richmond, lets’ see what else? If I take the boat out without my Wife She will KILL me! Did I “Splain it OK? 😀
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#77 mharper42,….Huumm thought it was pretty much self explanatory, but here goes. This weekend is Daughters’ 2 nd wedding anniversary and my Wife is spending the night at her house, (last night and tonight) so she can let the “Pole Cats” (ferrets for you folks in Rio Linda) out and feed them. Daughter lives in Richmond so my Wife is in Richmond, lets’ see what else? If I take the boat out without my Wife She will KILL me! Did I “Splain it OK? 😀
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Oh, I see part of the problem; My Bride is babysitting my Daughters two Pole-Cats tonight because
SheDaughter is @ the San Luis for Her second anniversary, so I told the Wife to make sure she left Richmond early tomorrow so she won’t miss the boat trip.
😉 -
Oh, I see part of the problem; My Bride is babysitting my Daughters two Pole-Cats tonight because
SheDaughter is @ the San Luis for Her second anniversary, so I told the Wife to make sure she left Richmond early tomorrow so she won’t miss the boat trip.
😉 -
#62 Nicely done.
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#62 Nicely done.
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#79 SD: Them pole cats is in the same fambily as skunks, minks and weasels.
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#79 SD: Them pole cats is in the same fambily as skunks, minks and weasels.
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Dave, I think it was mainly “babysitting the Pole-Cats” that threw me. I thought it might be a reference to some grandkids. Don’t know if you ever mentioned those ferrets before.
Have a nice outing on the water with Her.
🙂 -
Dave, I think it was mainly “babysitting the Pole-Cats” that threw me. I thought it might be a reference to some grandkids. Don’t know if you ever mentioned those ferrets before.
Have a nice outing on the water with Her.
🙂 -
#78 texpat
How appropriate, the Winin’ Boy Blues
I logged on during the end of the Mezz Mezzrow set.
Good post.
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#78 texpat
How appropriate, the Winin’ Boy Blues
I logged on during the end of the Mezz Mezzrow set.
Good post. -
#79 SD: Them pole cats is in the same family as skunks, minks and weasels.
Not exactly, they’re related to weasels but a skunk is NOT a “Pole Cat” even though that’s what my Daddy called them. A skunk only smells if he sprays, you can get a descented skunk and they are very much like a cat. A pole cat can spray also, but they have a musky smell that is secreted into their fur by the oil in their bodies. If you bathe them about twice a month it’s not bad, if you bathe them too much they really stink because their body adds extra oil to protect their fur. Don’t AXE me how I know. 😉
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#79 SD: Them pole cats is in the same family as skunks, minks and weasels.
Not exactly, they’re related to weasels but a skunk is NOT a “Pole Cat” even though that’s what my Daddy called them. A skunk only smells if he sprays, you can get a descented skunk and they are very much like a cat. A pole cat can spray also, but they have a musky smell that is secreted into their fur by the oil in their bodies. If you bathe them about twice a month it’s not bad, if you bathe them too much they really stink because their body adds extra oil to protect their fur. Don’t AXE me how I know. 😉
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Oh, and my Wife took “Small Back-up-Dawg” with her and left me with “Lil’ Bit”, the psychotic, untrainable little lady that thinks she is MY dog!? This is the little girl that someone left at the Home Owners Assn parking lot a couple of months ago. We gave her away twice but she never lasts more than a couple of days….sigh That said, you CAN NOT, not, love the little $#i!!
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Oh, and my Wife took “Small Back-up-Dawg” with her and left me with “Lil’ Bit”, the psychotic, untrainable little lady that thinks she is MY dog!? This is the little girl that someone left at the Home Owners Assn parking lot a couple of months ago. We gave her away twice but she never lasts more than a couple of days….sigh That said, you CAN NOT, not, love the little $#i!!
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SD: from wiki:
The ferret is a domesticated mammal of the type Mustela putorius furo. Ferrets are sexually dimorphic predators with males being substantially larger than females. They typically have brown, black, white, or mixed fur. They have an average length of 20 inches (51 cm) including a 5 inch (13 cm) tail, weigh about 1.5–4 pounds (0.7–2 kg), and have a natural lifespan of 7 to 10 years.[1]
Several other small, elongated carnivorous mammals belonging to the family Mustelidae also have the word ferret in their common names, including an endangered species, the Black-footed Ferret. The ferret is a very close relative of the polecat, but it is as yet unclear whether it is a domesticated form of the European Polecat, the Steppe Polecat, or some hybrid of the two.
also from Wiki:Mustelidae
Mustelidae (from Latin mustela, weasel), commonly referred to as the weasel family, are a family of carnivorous mammals. Mustelids are diverse and the largest family in the order Carnivora, at least partly because in the past it has been a catch-all category for many early or poorly differentiated taxa.[citation needed] The internal classification seems to be still quite unsettled, with rival proposals containing between two and eight subfamilies. One study published in 2008 questions the long accepted Mustelinae subfamily, and suggests that Mustelidae consists of four major clades and three much smaller lineages. The Mustelidae in general are phylogenetically relatively primitive and so were difficult to classify until genetic evidence started to become available. The increasing availability of such evidence may well result in some members of the family being moved to their own separate families, as has already happened with the skunks, previously considered to be members of the mustelid family.
Mustelids vary greatly in size and behavior. The least weasel is not much larger than a mouse. At the other end of the scale, giant otter can measure up to 2.4 metres (7.9 ft) in total length and sea otters can exceed 45 kilograms (99 lb). The wolverine can crush bones as thick as the femur of a moose to get at the marrow, and has been seen attempting to drive bears away from its kill. The sea otter uses rocks to break open shellfish to eat. The marten is largely arboreal, while the badger digs extensive networks of tunnels, called setts. Some mustelids have been domesticated. The ferret and the tayra are kept as pets (although the tayra requires a Dangerous Wild Animals licence in the UK), or as working animals for hunting or vermin control. Others have been important in the fur trade. The mink is often raised for its fur.
What an interesting and diverse family the weasels are.
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SD: from wiki:
The ferret is a domesticated mammal of the type Mustela putorius furo. Ferrets are sexually dimorphic predators with males being substantially larger than females. They typically have brown, black, white, or mixed fur. They have an average length of 20 inches (51 cm) including a 5 inch (13 cm) tail, weigh about 1.5–4 pounds (0.7–2 kg), and have a natural lifespan of 7 to 10 years.[1]
Several other small, elongated carnivorous mammals belonging to the family Mustelidae also have the word ferret in their common names, including an endangered species, the Black-footed Ferret. The ferret is a very close relative of the polecat, but it is as yet unclear whether it is a domesticated form of the European Polecat, the Steppe Polecat, or some hybrid of the two.also from Wiki:Mustelidae
Mustelidae (from Latin mustela, weasel), commonly referred to as the weasel family, are a family of carnivorous mammals. Mustelids are diverse and the largest family in the order Carnivora, at least partly because in the past it has been a catch-all category for many early or poorly differentiated taxa.[citation needed] The internal classification seems to be still quite unsettled, with rival proposals containing between two and eight subfamilies. One study published in 2008 questions the long accepted Mustelinae subfamily, and suggests that Mustelidae consists of four major clades and three much smaller lineages. The Mustelidae in general are phylogenetically relatively primitive and so were difficult to classify until genetic evidence started to become available. The increasing availability of such evidence may well result in some members of the family being moved to their own separate families, as has already happened with the skunks, previously considered to be members of the mustelid family.
Mustelids vary greatly in size and behavior. The least weasel is not much larger than a mouse. At the other end of the scale, giant otter can measure up to 2.4 metres (7.9 ft) in total length and sea otters can exceed 45 kilograms (99 lb). The wolverine can crush bones as thick as the femur of a moose to get at the marrow, and has been seen attempting to drive bears away from its kill. The sea otter uses rocks to break open shellfish to eat. The marten is largely arboreal, while the badger digs extensive networks of tunnels, called setts. Some mustelids have been domesticated. The ferret and the tayra are kept as pets (although the tayra requires a Dangerous Wild Animals licence in the UK), or as working animals for hunting or vermin control. Others have been important in the fur trade. The mink is often raised for its fur.What an interesting and diverse family the weasels are.
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I think the race baiting reverends skipped their seminary class the day they taught this verse.
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I think the race baiting reverends skipped their seminary class the day they taught this verse.
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Bonecrusher, going back to Goat Chaser’s # 1, did you know that in the 80’s there were only about 7 Black Footed Ferrets known to exist? Since they only eat Prairie Dogs they were almost completely exterminated by the farmers poisoning the Prairie Dogs in the wheat fields and then they were bred in captivity to be released back into the wild, but that’s NOT what saved them, what saved them were folks that bred them as pets, and now they are plentiful. The European Ferrets aren’t the same, they’ve been domesticated for hundreds of years to use as hunting animals. The term “Ferret Out” comes from sending the Ferret down a rabbit hole to grab his prey. 😉
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Bonecrusher, going back to Goat Chaser’s # 1, did you know that in the 80’s there were only about 7 Black Footed Ferrets known to exist? Since they only eat Prairie Dogs they were almost completely exterminated by the farmers poisoning the Prairie Dogs in the wheat fields and then they were bred in captivity to be released back into the wild, but that’s NOT what saved them, what saved them were folks that bred them as pets, and now they are plentiful. The European Ferrets aren’t the same, they’ve been domesticated for hundreds of years to use as hunting animals. The term “Ferret Out” comes from sending the Ferret down a rabbit hole to grab his prey. 😉
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This is good; Black-footed ferret Mustela nigripes.
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This is good; Black-footed ferret Mustela nigripes.
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I understand that tasting like chicken didn’t hurt their case either.
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I understand that tasting like chicken didn’t hurt their case either.
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It appears our Chinese friends are stirred up about something.
They’ve closed some internet hosts and whacked a rising star Chongqing Communist Party Secretary (Bo Xilai) after his police chief was refused asylum at a US Embassy. Also involved is a Brit expat that’s died under mysterious circumstances.The BBC is reporting rumours of a coup, but it’s just that only rumours. -
It appears our Chinese friends are stirred up about something.
They’ve closed some internet hosts and whacked a rising star Chongqing Communist Party Secretary (Bo Xilai) after his police chief was refused asylum at a US Embassy. Also involved is a Brit expat that’s died under mysterious circumstances.The BBC is reporting rumours of a coup, but it’s just that only rumours. -
Well, this year’s retreat is over. We had a good time, and, as usual, I got some heart-tugging time in with “my kids”. During the one-on-one prayer time I take with them, I really get to learn a lot about them. There were the usual pray for “my dying grandmother” requests, the “I’m having trouble in school” discussions – and then they’re the ones who are having problems with alcohol. I get several of those each year. There was a few relative-in-jail cries for help. This year, though, I had two students with what seemed to be severe sibling problems. One girl was near tears, describing how her brother gave her such a hard time. She didn’t seem to have much spark left, and she seemed to just want to melt into the background and not get noticed. So, so sad. The other one was a boy, a rather large boy, who is one of the quietest teenage boys I’ve ever seen. His sister seems to be a manipulative witch, who gets away with everything. He also seems to want to avoid being noticed. Praying with them just wasn’t enough. They each got long hugs and sincere comments of understanding and support. I pray that they find the strength and wisdom they need to deal with these sibling issues. If they don’t find their self-worth soon I think it’s going to affect them for life – if they have one to look forward to.
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Well, this year’s retreat is over. We had a good time, and, as usual, I got some heart-tugging time in with “my kids”. During the one-on-one prayer time I take with them, I really get to learn a lot about them. There were the usual pray for “my dying grandmother” requests, the “I’m having trouble in school” discussions – and then they’re the ones who are having problems with alcohol. I get several of those each year. There was a few relative-in-jail cries for help. This year, though, I had two students with what seemed to be severe sibling problems. One girl was near tears, describing how her brother gave her such a hard time. She didn’t seem to have much spark left, and she seemed to just want to melt into the background and not get noticed. So, so sad. The other one was a boy, a rather large boy, who is one of the quietest teenage boys I’ve ever seen. His sister seems to be a manipulative witch, who gets away with everything. He also seems to want to avoid being noticed. Praying with them just wasn’t enough. They each got long hugs and sincere comments of understanding and support. I pray that they find the strength and wisdom they need to deal with these sibling issues. If they don’t find their self-worth soon I think it’s going to affect them for life – if they have one to look forward to.
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Oh, and when our pastor asked them if they liked the retreat today, one answer he got was “exquisite”. I’ve never heard of an “exquisite” retreat before, but I’m glad they had a good time. I’ve skimmed the evaluation forms, and they seemed to have gotten most of what we were shooting for today.
Good day.
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Oh, and when our pastor asked them if they liked the retreat today, one answer he got was “exquisite”. I’ve never heard of an “exquisite” retreat before, but I’m glad they had a good time. I’ve skimmed the evaluation forms, and they seemed to have gotten most of what we were shooting for today.
Good day. -
Welcome back, TT. The boys were well-behaved while you were out doing your good works.
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Welcome back, TT. The boys were well-behaved while you were out doing your good works.
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#95 mharper
The boys were well-behaved while you were out doing your good works.
That’s always good hear, especially when I’ve had a very short night and a very long day.
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#95 mharper
The boys were well-behaved while you were out doing your good works.
That’s always good hear, especially when I’ve had a very short night and a very long day.
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We can fix that little problem…
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We can fix that little problem…
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Wonder what little problem Pyro is talking about? Isn’t he out of town?
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Wonder what little problem Pyro is talking about? Isn’t he out of town?
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He’s prolly thinking about MAKING a little problem…
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He’s prolly thinking about MAKING a little problem…
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Someone request a problem?
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Someone request a problem?
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Biggest hit at grandaughter’s baby shower today? The lil’ hoody number Sweetie bought before all the recent ruckus. 😀 Didn’t see any Skittles though.
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Biggest hit at grandaughter’s baby shower today? The lil’ hoody number Sweetie bought before all the recent ruckus. 😀 Didn’t see any Skittles though.
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Shamaal #52;
I saw that story about two days ago and here is what stood out to me:
Court records say the father thought the children should be baptized once they are older. He has asked that his ex-wife be found in criminal contempt for baptizing the children without his knowledge or permission.
I think he’s being a total asinine jerk about this whole thing but it does appear he has the court on his side. By the court order, they were supposed to have made this decision jointly and the mother apparently did not do her part. I’ve no idea why the man just can’t have them baptized when they are older as well and I find him in contempt for getting the court involved in this in the first place. He doesn’t seem to be the pick of the husband litter according to this short story about his divorce.
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Shamaal #52;
I saw that story about two days ago and here is what stood out to me:Court records say the father thought the children should be baptized once they are older. He has asked that his ex-wife be found in criminal contempt for baptizing the children without his knowledge or permission.
I think he’s being a total asinine jerk about this whole thing but it does appear he has the court on his side. By the court order, they were supposed to have made this decision jointly and the mother apparently did not do her part. I’ve no idea why the man just can’t have them baptized when they are older as well and I find him in contempt for getting the court involved in this in the first place. He doesn’t seem to be the pick of the husband litter according to this short story about his divorce.
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As far as I’m concerned they both are. She did violate a court order. But you bring up an interesting point, usually these baptism ceremonies involves a promise by a parent and god parents to raise a child in accordance with a religious manner. Couldn’t the children be baptized by her and her selected godparents as Presbyterians and then by him and his selected godparents as Methodists?
This seems like a reasonable solution to mixed marriages, although a bris is not easily reversible so there will have to some accommodation made there. Shamaal Jr and Miss Shamaal were baptized as Roman Catholic, hard to believe but the topic didn’t interest me at all. -
As far as I’m concerned they both are. She did violate a court order. But you bring up an interesting point, usually these baptism ceremonies involves a promise by a parent and god parents to raise a child in accordance with a religious manner. Couldn’t the children be baptized by her and her selected godparents as Presbyterians and then by him and his selected godparents as Methodists?
This seems like a reasonable solution to mixed marriages, although a bris is not easily reversible so there will have to some accommodation made there. Shamaal Jr and Miss Shamaal were baptized as Roman Catholic, hard to believe but the topic didn’t interest me at all. -
The past, the present, and the future walk into a bar. Needles to say, it was tense.
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The past, the present, and the future walk into a bar. Needles to say, it was tense.
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G’April’s Fool Day All
Sad.
The first thing I thought was: They didn’t drag the pond?searchers reviewing high-resolution images from a drone aircraft spotted a red dot in the southeast side of an algae-covered pond.
It was the red shirt worn by 2½-year-old Devon Davis, whose body was floating in the pond about 300 yards from his family’s house.
The pond had been searched before, but plants covering the surface kept the boy’s body from view, officials said.
The discovery brought the desperate search for little Devon to a somber close. The boy disappeared from his home at the Sam Houston Lakes Estate near Cleveland on Tuesday. His mother, April Davis, said she put him down for a nap, bolted the front door, then went to sleep herself for 20 minutes. She awoke about 3:30 p.m. to find Devon gone and the door open. He was last seen wearing a red and gray jersey T-shirt and jeans.
‘We’re all human’
Liberty County Sheriff’s spokesman Rex Evans said Devon’s death “appears accidental.”
“We’re all human,” Evans said. “I don’t think (the mother) did anything intentional at all.”
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G’April’s Fool Day All
Sad.
The first thing I thought was: They didn’t drag the pond?searchers reviewing high-resolution images from a drone aircraft spotted a red dot in the southeast side of an algae-covered pond.
It was the red shirt worn by 2½-year-old Devon Davis, whose body was floating in the pond about 300 yards from his family’s house.
The pond had been searched before, but plants covering the surface kept the boy’s body from view, officials said.
The discovery brought the desperate search for little Devon to a somber close. The boy disappeared from his home at the Sam Houston Lakes Estate near Cleveland on Tuesday. His mother, April Davis, said she put him down for a nap, bolted the front door, then went to sleep herself for 20 minutes. She awoke about 3:30 p.m. to find Devon gone and the door open. He was last seen wearing a red and gray jersey T-shirt and jeans.
‘We’re all human’
Liberty County Sheriff’s spokesman Rex Evans said Devon’s death “appears accidental.”
“We’re all human,” Evans said. “I don’t think (the mother) did anything intentional at all.” -
Hear that pop? That’s when Hillary’s head came out of her a$$.
Clinton doubts that Assad is interested in peace
By BRADLEY KLAPPER
Associated PressISTANBUL (AP) — U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton expressed doubt Sunday about whether President Bashar Assad would ever adhere to a U.N.-sponsored peace plan to end Syria’s year of bloodshed, and urged world solidarity against a regime that she said was waging war on its own people.
Snip
International pressure forced Assad to agree to U.N. mediator Kofi Annan’s proposal, which includes an immediate a cease-fire, she noted, adding that “nearly a week has gone by, and we have to conclude that the regime is adding to its long list of broken promises.”
Snip
But, “rather than pull back, Assad’s troops have launched new assaults on Syrian cities and towns,” she said. “Rather than allowing access for humanitarian aid, security forces have tightened their siege of residential neighborhoods in Homs and elsewhere. And rather than beginning a political transition, the regime has crushed dozens of peaceful protests.”
Snip
Her solution? Get real, real tough.“Our message must be clear to those who give the orders and those who carry them out,” Clinton said. “Stop killing your fellow citizens or you will face serious consequences. Your countrymen will not forget, and neither will the international community.”
Hear that sucking sound? That was her head returning to it’s former position.
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Hear that pop? That’s when Hillary’s head came out of her a$$.
Clinton doubts that Assad is interested in peace
By BRADLEY KLAPPER
Associated Press
ISTANBUL (AP) — U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton expressed doubt Sunday about whether President Bashar Assad would ever adhere to a U.N.-sponsored peace plan to end Syria’s year of bloodshed, and urged world solidarity against a regime that she said was waging war on its own people.Snip
International pressure forced Assad to agree to U.N. mediator Kofi Annan’s proposal, which includes an immediate a cease-fire, she noted, adding that “nearly a week has gone by, and we have to conclude that the regime is adding to its long list of broken promises.”
Snip
But, “rather than pull back, Assad’s troops have launched new assaults on Syrian cities and towns,” she said. “Rather than allowing access for humanitarian aid, security forces have tightened their siege of residential neighborhoods in Homs and elsewhere. And rather than beginning a political transition, the regime has crushed dozens of peaceful protests.”
Snip
Her solution? Get real, real tough.“Our message must be clear to those who give the orders and those who carry them out,” Clinton said. “Stop killing your fellow citizens or you will face serious consequences. Your countrymen will not forget, and neither will the international community.”
Hear that sucking sound? That was her head returning to it’s former position.
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I’ve no idea why the man just can’t have them baptized when they are older as well
Most Christian denominations don’t treat baptism as nothing more than a fancy shower. It’s a solemn rite given once in your life.
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I’ve no idea why the man just can’t have them baptized when they are older as well
Most Christian denominations don’t treat baptism as nothing more than a fancy shower. It’s a solemn rite given once in your life.
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Most Christian denominations don’t treat baptism as nothing more than a fancy shower. It’s a solemn rite given once in your life.
Glad you said most. Some religions require you be re-baptized if you change religions to to theirs.
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Most Christian denominations don’t treat baptism as nothing more than a fancy shower. It’s a solemn rite given once in your life.
Glad you said most. Some religions require you be re-baptized if you change religions to to theirs.
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This could be real interesting………
When news broke that Katie Couric will be filling in for Robin Roberts next week on ABC’s “Good Morning America,” the country yawned. Or, at least we did, until we learned that NBC plans to pit “The Rogue Warrior” against “The Perky One”: Sarah Palin will be guest-hosting “Today” this Tuesday.
NBC’s decision to seat the former Alaska Governor-turned-multimedia star in their anchor chair will likely prove to be a fruitful one. Since coming onto the national scene in 2008, Palin has become one of the most charismatic figures in conservative America and will likely bring “Today” an entirely different demographic of viewers.
“I see this as a good opportunity to bring an independent, common-sense conservative perspective to NBC. We’re ‘going rogue’ and infiltrating some turf for a day,” Palin told Breitbart News.
Palin and Couric will be squaring off, in a sense, for the first time since their controversial interview on the 2008 campaign trail.
When Breitbart News asked for a comment about the fact that she will be competing with Couric, Gov. Palin responded simply: “Game on.”
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This could be real interesting………
When news broke that Katie Couric will be filling in for Robin Roberts next week on ABC’s “Good Morning America,” the country yawned. Or, at least we did, until we learned that NBC plans to pit “The Rogue Warrior” against “The Perky One”: Sarah Palin will be guest-hosting “Today” this Tuesday.
NBC’s decision to seat the former Alaska Governor-turned-multimedia star in their anchor chair will likely prove to be a fruitful one. Since coming onto the national scene in 2008, Palin has become one of the most charismatic figures in conservative America and will likely bring “Today” an entirely different demographic of viewers.
“I see this as a good opportunity to bring an independent, common-sense conservative perspective to NBC. We’re ‘going rogue’ and infiltrating some turf for a day,” Palin told Breitbart News.
Palin and Couric will be squaring off, in a sense, for the first time since their controversial interview on the 2008 campaign trail.
When Breitbart News asked for a comment about the fact that she will be competing with Couric, Gov. Palin responded simply: “Game on.” -
Counter-terrorism/security expert Bruce Schneier debates former TSA director, Kip Hawley, on the merits of TSA security methods and strategy.
Schneier writes at The Economist:
This is a stupid game, and we should stop playing it. Overly specific security measures work only if we happen to guess both the target and the plot correctly. If we get either wrong—if the terrorists attack something other than aircraft, or use a tactic we have not thought of yet—we have wasted our money and uselessly annoyed millions of travellers.
Airport security is the last line of defence, and it is not a very good one. If there were only a dozen potential terrorist tactics and a hundred possible targets, then protecting against particular plots might make us safer. But there are hundreds of possible tactics and millions of possible targets. Spending billions to force the terrorists to alter their plans in one particular way does not make us safer. It is far more cost-effective to concentrate our defences in ways that work regardless of tactic and target: intelligence, investigation and emergency response.
with this conclusion,
But all that can be handled with pre-9/11 security. Exactly two things have made air travel safer since 9/11: reinforcing the cockpit door, and convincing passengers that they need to fight back. Everything else has been a waste of money. Add screening of checked bags and airport workers and we are done. All the rest is security theatre. If we truly want to be safer, we should return airport security to pre-9/11 levels and spend the savings on intelligence, investigation and emergency response.
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Counter-terrorism/security expert Bruce Schneier debates former TSA director, Kip Hawley, on the merits of TSA security methods and strategy.
Schneier writes at The Economist:This is a stupid game, and we should stop playing it. Overly specific security measures work only if we happen to guess both the target and the plot correctly. If we get either wrong—if the terrorists attack something other than aircraft, or use a tactic we have not thought of yet—we have wasted our money and uselessly annoyed millions of travellers.
Airport security is the last line of defence, and it is not a very good one. If there were only a dozen potential terrorist tactics and a hundred possible targets, then protecting against particular plots might make us safer. But there are hundreds of possible tactics and millions of possible targets. Spending billions to force the terrorists to alter their plans in one particular way does not make us safer. It is far more cost-effective to concentrate our defences in ways that work regardless of tactic and target: intelligence, investigation and emergency response.with this conclusion,
But all that can be handled with pre-9/11 security. Exactly two things have made air travel safer since 9/11: reinforcing the cockpit door, and convincing passengers that they need to fight back. Everything else has been a waste of money. Add screening of checked bags and airport workers and we are done. All the rest is security theatre. If we truly want to be safer, we should return airport security to pre-9/11 levels and spend the savings on intelligence, investigation and emergency response.
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What do you do when caught in a bold faced lie? Why you get righteously indignant and swear to
cover upinvestigate.NBC Launches Internal Investigation Over Trayvon Martin Case Segment
NBC told the Washington Post’s Erik Wemple Saturday that it would investigate an incident in which the “Today” show used an abridged recording of George Zimmerman’s 911 call before he killed Trayvon Martin. The version used by NBC emphasized race as a factor in the incident.
NBC’s version of the call sounded like this:
Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.
But as Fox News and NewsBusters discovered, the actual conversation went like this:
Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
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What do you do when caught in a bold faced lie? Why you get righteously indignant and swear to
cover upinvestigate.NBC Launches Internal Investigation Over Trayvon Martin Case Segment
NBC told the Washington Post’s Erik Wemple Saturday that it would investigate an incident in which the “Today” show used an abridged recording of George Zimmerman’s 911 call before he killed Trayvon Martin. The version used by NBC emphasized race as a factor in the incident.
NBC’s version of the call sounded like this:
Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.
But as Fox News and NewsBusters discovered, the actual conversation went like this:
Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.
Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black. -
Well, I’m not a fan of Piers Morgan but this is a pretty good “Slap-Down”
Piers Morgan concluded the interview saying, “I like to think of myself as a professional journalist, Touré. I think that you are something else.”
Mornin’ Gang
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Well, I’m not a fan of Piers Morgan but this is a pretty good “Slap-Down”
Piers Morgan concluded the interview saying, “I like to think of myself as a professional journalist, Touré. I think that you are something else.”
Mornin’ Gang
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They’re beginning to figure it out.
ObamaCare is like those hospital gowns that tie in the back, you just think you’re covered.Senate Budget Committee finds Unfunded Liabilities in ObamaCare Grows by $17 Trillion
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 3:05 AMAs LFN previously reported, a CBO report shows that by 2016 ObamaCare would cost $1.76 trillion and generate only $400 billion in revenue, leaving a deficit of $1.36 trillion. The estimates for cost are $820 billion more than CBO estimates at the time of the Patient Protection and Affordability Act’s passage. However, it appears that the short-term costs of ObamaCare are not the only costs that are skyrocketing. A new Senate Budget Committee study reveals that the long term unfunded liabilities under ObamaCare are $82 trillion, $17 trillion more than estimates prior to the bill’s passage.
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They’re beginning to figure it out.
ObamaCare is like those hospital gowns that tie in the back, you just think you’re covered.Senate Budget Committee finds Unfunded Liabilities in ObamaCare Grows by $17 Trillion
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 3:05 AM
As LFN previously reported, a CBO report shows that by 2016 ObamaCare would cost $1.76 trillion and generate only $400 billion in revenue, leaving a deficit of $1.36 trillion. The estimates for cost are $820 billion more than CBO estimates at the time of the Patient Protection and Affordability Act’s passage. However, it appears that the short-term costs of ObamaCare are not the only costs that are skyrocketing. A new Senate Budget Committee study reveals that the long term unfunded liabilities under ObamaCare are $82 trillion, $17 trillion more than estimates prior to the bill’s passage. -
#111: I would say that Zimmerman has a real good case against NBC for its selective editing; it unfairly and incorrectly branded him to be a racist and was instrumental in fomenting racial (black on white) violence across the land. Their irresponsibility helped to convince the racist hate group NBP to put a bounty on Z’s head, needlessly putting his life in imminent jeopardy. The actions of NBC easily fall into the category of gross negligence against a private citizen and they need to pay the price for it. Does anybody remember the Olympic bombing attempt in Atlanta and how the media immediately branded Richard Jewel the bad guy? I think this is the same thing.
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#111: I would say that Zimmerman has a real good case against NBC for its selective editing; it unfairly and incorrectly branded him to be a racist and was instrumental in fomenting racial (black on white) violence across the land. Their irresponsibility helped to convince the racist hate group NBP to put a bounty on Z’s head, needlessly putting his life in imminent jeopardy. The actions of NBC easily fall into the category of gross negligence against a private citizen and they need to pay the price for it. Does anybody remember the Olympic bombing attempt in Atlanta and how the media immediately branded Richard Jewel the bad guy? I think this is the same thing.
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#107/108
Most Christian denominations don’t treat baptism as nothing more than a fancy shower.
And from the religions point of view that is understandable, baptisms are exclusive religious contracts. I would posit that if both of these parents were devoted to their individual religions they wouldn’t have gotten married to each other, the differences being to great.
Yet they did so something’s going to have to give. Given that most religions see poaching each other’s members as a duty, let the ecclesiastical courts decide what they will accept. If both religions have their blinders on, the first can claim primacy and ignore the second while the second can treat it as a conversion and ignore the first. For the children the doxological differences can be treated like a second language. If one of the parties is gay, even better; there may be a rush to deny them.
That leaves the matter of the civil/criminal court. The contract was broken, I see no justice in sending people to jail for religious beliefs and I most certainly do not like the courts getting embroiled in religious matters. This is not the first time that this topic has come up, I would expect a consultation with the ministers of both faiths can resolve the issue. If the children are babies, the contract is between the parent and the church to raise the child in a particular manner, and if the children are active participants, most contracts have nullification clauses if the party was coerced into giving consent. -
#107/108
Most Christian denominations don’t treat baptism as nothing more than a fancy shower.
And from the religions point of view that is understandable, baptisms are exclusive religious contracts. I would posit that if both of these parents were devoted to their individual religions they wouldn’t have gotten married to each other, the differences being to great.
Yet they did so something’s going to have to give. Given that most religions see poaching each other’s members as a duty, let the ecclesiastical courts decide what they will accept. If both religions have their blinders on, the first can claim primacy and ignore the second while the second can treat it as a conversion and ignore the first. For the children the doxological differences can be treated like a second language. If one of the parties is gay, even better; there may be a rush to deny them.
That leaves the matter of the civil/criminal court. The contract was broken, I see no justice in sending people to jail for religious beliefs and I most certainly do not like the courts getting embroiled in religious matters. This is not the first time that this topic has come up, I would expect a consultation with the ministers of both faiths can resolve the issue. If the children are babies, the contract is between the parent and the church to raise the child in a particular manner, and if the children are active participants, most contracts have nullification clauses if the party was coerced into giving consent. -
#109 – Outstanding! I hope Mama ‘Cuda kicks ‘Perky butt’!!!!!!!
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#109 – Outstanding! I hope Mama ‘Cuda kicks ‘Perky butt’!!!!!!!
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#116 Whiskerfish: Now that Palin has been around the “journalistic block” a few times, I don’t think she will be anywhere near as easy to intimidate and the camera will be a non-issue. Intellectually, I think that Palin will wipe the floor with the perky one.
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#116 Whiskerfish: Now that Palin has been around the “journalistic block” a few times, I don’t think she will be anywhere near as easy to intimidate and the camera will be a non-issue. Intellectually, I think that Palin will wipe the floor with the perky one.
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But all that can be handled with pre-9/11 security. Exactly two things have made air travel safer since 9/11: reinforcing the cockpit door, and convincing passengers that they need to fight back.
Folks just can’t resist the lure of populism, however it is a debate so a certain amount of rhetoric can be expected. I am in agreement that Implementing the FAA recommendation to reinforce the cockpit door made air travel safer. I am in disagreement with regards to the populist second. The realization was not that passengers fight back, but that the planes would be used as suicide weapons, not conveyance to an ideologically friendly country. That is, the safety of the flight overtook the safety of the individual passengers. Schneier’s belief that the passenger’s are empowered to be responsible for the safety of the flight, does not mitigate the operator’s responsibilities in any way and are as effective a deterrent as taking off your shoes.
Under the pre 9/11 system, the airlines were responsible for security of their passengers, when the US Government assumed the responsibility for security, they in effect indemnified the operators from responsibility. These were political policy decisions, much discussed at the time.
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But all that can be handled with pre-9/11 security. Exactly two things have made air travel safer since 9/11: reinforcing the cockpit door, and convincing passengers that they need to fight back.
Folks just can’t resist the lure of populism, however it is a debate so a certain amount of rhetoric can be expected. I am in agreement that Implementing the FAA recommendation to reinforce the cockpit door made air travel safer. I am in disagreement with regards to the populist second. The realization was not that passengers fight back, but that the planes would be used as suicide weapons, not conveyance to an ideologically friendly country. That is, the safety of the flight overtook the safety of the individual passengers. Schneier’s belief that the passenger’s are empowered to be responsible for the safety of the flight, does not mitigate the operator’s responsibilities in any way and are as effective a deterrent as taking off your shoes.
Under the pre 9/11 system, the airlines were responsible for security of their passengers, when the US Government assumed the responsibility for security, they in effect indemnified the operators from responsibility. These were political policy decisions, much discussed at the time. -
#116 katfish
Who knows, maybe she’ll have read a newspaper by then. 😉
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#116 katfish
Who knows, maybe she’ll have read a newspaper by then. 😉 -
Van Jones is on the “roundtable” on This Week with Little Georgie Snuffaluffagus
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Van Jones is on the “roundtable” on This Week with Little Georgie Snuffaluffagus
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I don’t get it. Are Palin and Couric having a face to face intellectual debate, or just hosting two different dumbed down morning news programs on competing networks? If it’s the latter, I’m certain that Gov. Palin will boost the program’s viewership for the day she’s there. (I won’t say why I think that.)
In any event, I don’t plan to watch it.
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I don’t get it. Are Palin and Couric having a face to face intellectual debate, or just hosting two different dumbed down morning news programs on competing networks? If it’s the latter, I’m certain that Gov. Palin will boost the program’s viewership for the day she’s there. (I won’t say why I think that.)
In any event, I don’t plan to watch it. -
Economics is a lot different when your priorities are set by others.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu rejected calls to lower taxes and increase government spending on Sunday, saying that his government was using tax money to safeguard Israel’s security as well as its economy.
“We need the taxes to buy more Iron Domes, to complete the fence’s construction, to pay for children’s free education, to pave roads and lay train tracks, to aid the elderly and needy,” the premier said. ….
Addressing growing pressure over the cost of living in Israel – a pressure which resulted in the break out massive social protests last summer – Netanyahu on Sunday rejected calls to cut taxes and increase spending, saying that those making such demands “lack economic knowledge as well as responsibility.” -
Economics is a lot different when your priorities are set by others.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu rejected calls to lower taxes and increase government spending on Sunday, saying that his government was using tax money to safeguard Israel’s security as well as its economy.
“We need the taxes to buy more Iron Domes, to complete the fence’s construction, to pay for children’s free education, to pave roads and lay train tracks, to aid the elderly and needy,” the premier said. ….
Addressing growing pressure over the cost of living in Israel – a pressure which resulted in the break out massive social protests last summer – Netanyahu on Sunday rejected calls to cut taxes and increase spending, saying that those making such demands “lack economic knowledge as well as responsibility.” -
George Yousteppedinlotsofwhatsopoulos should open each show by saying I’m not a journalist but I play one on TV.
As a matter of fact all the so called journalists on all the alphabet channels also known as Yellow Journalism Inc. could say the same thing.
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George Yousteppedinlotsofwhatsopoulos should open each show by saying I’m not a journalist but I play one on TV.
As a matter of fact all the so called journalists on all the alphabet channels also known as Yellow Journalism Inc. could say the same thing. -
#123 phil
Ah… but some of them were Journ-o-Listers if you remember that disgraceful group.
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#123 phil
Ah… but some of them were Journ-o-Listers if you remember that disgraceful group. -
Catholics, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Methodists, and Lutherans all acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, so they accept other denominations’ baptism as valid. Baptists (at least the ones I’m familiar with, Southern Baptists) only accept adult Baptisms of other denominations. I believe Darren has said that Mormons don’t recognize anyone else’s baptism. My point was, since the faiths of the parents all acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, you can’t just go around baptizing kids willy-nilly.
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Catholics, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Methodists, and Lutherans all acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, so they accept other denominations’ baptism as valid. Baptists (at least the ones I’m familiar with, Southern Baptists) only accept adult Baptisms of other denominations. I believe Darren has said that Mormons don’t recognize anyone else’s baptism. My point was, since the faiths of the parents all acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, you can’t just go around baptizing kids willy-nilly.
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I wonder if JugEars is now gonna say that he was always worried about Lin’s knee problems.
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I wonder if JugEars is now gonna say that he was always worried about Lin’s knee problems.
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In the It’s a good fit for him dept.
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In the It’s a good fit for him dept.
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#125 Hamous
Catholics, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Methodists, and Lutherans all acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, so they accept other denominations’ baptism as valid.
I was unaware that oecumenism had extended that far. So if the Methodists accept the Presbyterian’s baptism validity same as a Methodist’s baptism; the only “crime” would appear to be the schedule. I can understand the need for the court to enforce its order, but jail seems a little harsh.
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#125 Hamous
Catholics, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Methodists, and Lutherans all acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, so they accept other denominations’ baptism as valid.
I was unaware that oecumenism had extended that far. So if the Methodists accept the Presbyterian’s baptism validity same as a Methodist’s baptism; the only “crime” would appear to be the schedule. I can understand the need for the court to enforce its order, but jail seems a little harsh.
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#127 phil
I watch CCTV occasionally, it usually has chinese language lessons with the usual fluff of visiting dignitaries to agricultural provinces. No worse than watching the Fox News Channel, except for the opportunity to learn something. 😉
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#127 phil
I watch CCTV occasionally, it usually has chinese language lessons with the usual fluff of visiting dignitaries to agricultural provinces. No worse than watching the Fox News Channel, except for the opportunity to learn something. 😉 -
129
Propaganda comes in many forms.
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129
Propaganda comes in many forms. -
I watch CCTV occasionally
All those shocked say aye.
The nah’s have it.
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I watch CCTV occasionally
All those shocked say aye.
The nah’s have it. -
FLOTUS attended a chilren’s network award presentation yesterday and got splashed by the green goo overflowing the stage. It is unknown whether the slimees, Will Smith and Justin Bieber, were wrestled to the ground by the secret service.
Michelle Obama got more than she’d bargained for when she turned up at last night’s Kids’ Choice Awards.
But perhaps it should have been no surprise when she was splattered with slime at the conclusion of Hollywood’s zaniest awards show.
Drenching celebrities with green goo is a hallowed tradition at the KCAs, and the First Lady was lucky not to be directly in the firing line. -
FLOTUS attended a chilren’s network award presentation yesterday and got splashed by the green goo overflowing the stage. It is unknown whether the slimees, Will Smith and Justin Bieber, were wrestled to the ground by the secret service.
Michelle Obama got more than she’d bargained for when she turned up at last night’s Kids’ Choice Awards.
But perhaps it should have been no surprise when she was splattered with slime at the conclusion of Hollywood’s zaniest awards show.
Drenching celebrities with green goo is a hallowed tradition at the KCAs, and the First Lady was lucky not to be directly in the firing line. -
#132 FLOTUS contaminated the goo for everybody else.
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#132 FLOTUS contaminated the goo for everybody else.
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I thought Gallagher retired.
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I thought Gallagher retired.
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Hamous #125;
I believe Darren has said that Mormons don’t recognize anyone else’s baptism.
Based upon the authority of the priesthood which the LDS believe was lost after the death of the apostles, yes. It has nothing to do with what others belive regarding baptism. And the LDS absolutely baptize for the forgivenss of sin and as a means to be “reborn” and to dedicate one’s life to Christ.
(Include your #107 for this response);
My point was, since the faiths of the parents all acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, you can’t just go around baptizing kids willy-nilly.
And there I see that the father is not viewing the baptism of his boys as spiritual or why would he be taking the issue to court? Should he not rejoice for his sons’ baptism for the forgiveness of sin? It seems he’s only become a bit irate and is now seeking a course of action which could end up imprisioning his ex-wife who had them baptized. There mere fact that he’s placed his ex wife in a position to get fined and/or go to jail all because she had his (and her) sons baptized. This completely fails to demonstrate that he’s viewing his son’s baptism as a matter of faith in the first place so what harm to just re-baptize them later on? I mean, if he views baptism as a means to be enforced by the state then in that secular view of baptism, why not baptize the son later on according to his own will? Blake Jarell it seems has taken the purpose of baptism way beyond its spiritual foundation in the first place and that in and of itself would mean that there’s a significant loss of the sacredness of the baptism and thus why not just baptize the child later on?
Had the father not taken his ex-wife to court in the first place, I’d agree with your #107 100%.
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Hamous #125;
I believe Darren has said that Mormons don’t recognize anyone else’s baptism.
Based upon the authority of the priesthood which the LDS believe was lost after the death of the apostles, yes. It has nothing to do with what others belive regarding baptism. And the LDS absolutely baptize for the forgivenss of sin and as a means to be “reborn” and to dedicate one’s life to Christ.
(Include your #107 for this response);My point was, since the faiths of the parents all acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, you can’t just go around baptizing kids willy-nilly.
And there I see that the father is not viewing the baptism of his boys as spiritual or why would he be taking the issue to court? Should he not rejoice for his sons’ baptism for the forgiveness of sin? It seems he’s only become a bit irate and is now seeking a course of action which could end up imprisioning his ex-wife who had them baptized. There mere fact that he’s placed his ex wife in a position to get fined and/or go to jail all because she had his (and her) sons baptized. This completely fails to demonstrate that he’s viewing his son’s baptism as a matter of faith in the first place so what harm to just re-baptize them later on? I mean, if he views baptism as a means to be enforced by the state then in that secular view of baptism, why not baptize the son later on according to his own will? Blake Jarell it seems has taken the purpose of baptism way beyond its spiritual foundation in the first place and that in and of itself would mean that there’s a significant loss of the sacredness of the baptism and thus why not just baptize the child later on?
Had the father not taken his ex-wife to court in the first place, I’d agree with your #107 100%. -
If you ever heard Jerry Jeff sing this live, late at night, at the Old Quarter in downtown Houston, you would know his version is the best.
But, it’s going to take a while to get over Earl being gone, so take it away, boys:
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If you ever heard Jerry Jeff sing this live, late at night, at the Old Quarter in downtown Houston, you would know his version is the best.
But, it’s going to take a while to get over Earl being gone, so take it away, boys:
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Shamaal #115;
I would posit that if both of these parents were devoted to their individual religions they wouldn’t have gotten married to each other, the differences being to great.
Yet they did so something’s going to have to give.
You’re a smart man. When peopele of two different faiths marry there is always the risk of their respective faiths conflicting with each other. Now I do not know enoufh about either of these parent’s faiths to decide if their differences on the age of their sons being baptized is based upon the respective teachings of their faiths but there was indeed a difference of opinion on this subject.
let the ecclesiastical courts decide what they will accept
That’s precisely where I say this should be decided.
I see no justice in sending people to jail for religious beliefs and I most certainly do not like the courts getting embroiled in religious matters.
BINGO!!! While the court may do so in this case it seems, there’s no reason this *has to be* taken up by the court. I think it’s only upon the father’s insistence that they are going to here this case in the first place.
I would expect a consultation with the ministers of both faiths can resolve the issue
Yes again.
If the children are babies, the contract is between the parent and the church to raise the child in a particular manner, and if the children are active participants, most contracts have nullification clauses if the party was coerced into giving consent.
Seems logical to me. If this is the case and these parents had no nullification clauses then perhaps they had bad lawyers.
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Shamaal #115;
I would posit that if both of these parents were devoted to their individual religions they wouldn’t have gotten married to each other, the differences being to great.
Yet they did so something’s going to have to give.You’re a smart man. When peopele of two different faiths marry there is always the risk of their respective faiths conflicting with each other. Now I do not know enoufh about either of these parent’s faiths to decide if their differences on the age of their sons being baptized is based upon the respective teachings of their faiths but there was indeed a difference of opinion on this subject.
let the ecclesiastical courts decide what they will accept
That’s precisely where I say this should be decided.
I see no justice in sending people to jail for religious beliefs and I most certainly do not like the courts getting embroiled in religious matters.
BINGO!!! While the court may do so in this case it seems, there’s no reason this *has to be* taken up by the court. I think it’s only upon the father’s insistence that they are going to here this case in the first place.
I would expect a consultation with the ministers of both faiths can resolve the issue
Yes again.
If the children are babies, the contract is between the parent and the church to raise the child in a particular manner, and if the children are active participants, most contracts have nullification clauses if the party was coerced into giving consent.
Seems logical to me. If this is the case and these parents had no nullification clauses then perhaps they had bad lawyers.
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Had the father not taken his ex-wife to court in the first place, I’d agree with your #107 100%.
I haven’t said anything about legal actions. I am only commenting on the spiritual aspect. In both their denominations, once a child is baptized, he is baptized. The father can’t, as you suggested, “just re-baptize them later on”. There’s no such thing as re-baptizing.
But I’m beginning to have a better understanding as to why Mormons seem surprised when people object to the practice of baptizing their deceased family members without their or their families’ consent.
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Had the father not taken his ex-wife to court in the first place, I’d agree with your #107 100%.
I haven’t said anything about legal actions. I am only commenting on the spiritual aspect. In both their denominations, once a child is baptized, he is baptized. The father can’t, as you suggested, “just re-baptize them later on”. There’s no such thing as re-baptizing.
But I’m beginning to have a better understanding as to why Mormons seem surprised when people object to the practice of baptizing their deceased family members without their or their families’ consent. -
Both Presbyterian and Methodists stand on the Nicene Creed which acknowledges one baptism for the forgiveness (or remission) of sins.
Perhaps other issues between the two denominations (and there exists a few) are a source of conflict for this couple. She clearly did not abide by the court order that they come to an agreement in this area.
This broken marriage seems to have lots of problems with communication, among other things.
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Both Presbyterian and Methodists stand on the Nicene Creed which acknowledges one baptism for the forgiveness (or remission) of sins.
Perhaps other issues between the two denominations (and there exists a few) are a source of conflict for this couple. She clearly did not abide by the court order that they come to an agreement in this area.
This broken marriage seems to have lots of problems with communication, among other things. -
Shamwow,
You need to understand that repeated baptisms is somewhat laughable, and certainly redundant, to most believers. -
Shamwow,
You need to understand that repeated baptisms is somewhat laughable, and certainly redundant, to most believers. -
140
It isn’t some meaningless “ritual”.
Something actually happens. -
140
It isn’t some meaningless “ritual”.
Something actually happens. -
Yes in most of the Christian religions, there is one baptism against the soul, but if a particular religion doesn’t recognize the first one then, in their minds, the second one is the only one that counts; and let’s face, each of the religious organizations believe that they are the accountants of record.
Among those of the Catholic faiths, I would reference Definition of the Holy Church of Christ Defending the Holy Baptism Given from God, and Spitting upon the Baptisms of the Heretics Which Are Otherwise Administered as of yet unrescinded. Just as churches may not recognize other churches’ marriages (see Newt Gingrich), the same is true of Baptism.
Many church’s do not believe paedobaptism is valid, or sprinkles or whole immersion. As many non-Catholic religions have no central authority (by definition), the local church is the front line and often the arbiter of what they will accept. Motivations may be true religious convictions, market share or revenue.
In the case of our divorced family, I suspect the problem lies in enforceable trust. If the Methodists are willing to accept a Presbyterian baptism where the parents and the godparents vow to raise the child as a Presbyterian, then more power to them. But I suspect that the faiths are not that malleable. -
Yes in most of the Christian religions, there is one baptism against the soul, but if a particular religion doesn’t recognize the first one then, in their minds, the second one is the only one that counts; and let’s face, each of the religious organizations believe that they are the accountants of record.
Among those of the Catholic faiths, I would reference Definition of the Holy Church of Christ Defending the Holy Baptism Given from God, and Spitting upon the Baptisms of the Heretics Which Are Otherwise Administered as of yet unrescinded. Just as churches may not recognize other churches’ marriages (see Newt Gingrich), the same is true of Baptism.
Many church’s do not believe paedobaptism is valid, or sprinkles or whole immersion. As many non-Catholic religions have no central authority (by definition), the local church is the front line and often the arbiter of what they will accept. Motivations may be true religious convictions, market share or revenue.
In the case of our divorced family, I suspect the problem lies in enforceable trust. If the Methodists are willing to accept a Presbyterian baptism where the parents and the godparents vow to raise the child as a Presbyterian, then more power to them. But I suspect that the faiths are not that malleable. -
Quite simply, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
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Quite simply, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
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Your lot in life as a troll is sad one.
We’ll be praying for you. -
Your lot in life as a troll is sad one.
We’ll be praying for you. -
You need to understand that repeated baptisms is somewhat laughable, and certainly redundant, to most believers.
As a follow-up to my #142
If we were to accept the definition of most believers as the largest Christian denomination, Roman Catholics, the following passages from the Catholic Encyclopedia may assist. At first I was going to summarize, but so much of this dogma stuff is contextual, I’d end up closing one argument and open up ten more.
Authoritative statement of doctrine
On Re-Baptism -
You need to understand that repeated baptisms is somewhat laughable, and certainly redundant, to most believers.
As a follow-up to my #142
If we were to accept the definition of most believers as the largest Christian denomination, Roman Catholics, the following passages from the Catholic Encyclopedia may assist. At first I was going to summarize, but so much of this dogma stuff is contextual, I’d end up closing one argument and open up ten more.
Authoritative statement of doctrine
On Re-Baptism -
“baptism against the soul”
Haven’t heard that one before.
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“baptism against the soul”
Haven’t heard that one before. -
Quite simply, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Quite simply, I do and I have 2000 years of religious strife as evidence.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. -
Quite simply, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Quite simply, I do and I have 2000 years of religious strife as evidence.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. -
“At first I was going to summarize, but so much of this dogma stuff is contextual, I’d end up closing one argument and open up ten more.”
Yeah, it’s probably best for you to stick with political trolling.
The jump from A to triple A rarely works out.
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“At first I was going to summarize, but so much of this dogma stuff is contextual, I’d end up closing one argument and open up ten more.”
Yeah, it’s probably best for you to stick with political trolling.
The jump from A to triple A rarely works out. -
“baptism against the soul”
Haven’t heard that one before.Sorry, I tend to think in Roman Catholic terms. One soul, one baptism. The metaphor I was using was an accounting term likening the soul as the unique account.
From the Catechism
1280 Baptism imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual sign, the character, which consecrates the baptized person for Christian worship. Because of the character Baptism cannot be repeated (cf. DS 1609 and DS 1624).
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“baptism against the soul”
Haven’t heard that one before.Sorry, I tend to think in Roman Catholic terms. One soul, one baptism. The metaphor I was using was an accounting term likening the soul as the unique account.
From the Catechism1280 Baptism imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual sign, the character, which consecrates the baptized person for Christian worship. Because of the character Baptism cannot be repeated (cf. DS 1609 and DS 1624).
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146 Shannon says:
“baptism against the soul”
Haven’t heard that one before.
Too little study, too much google.
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146 Shannon says:
“baptism against the soul”
Haven’t heard that one before.Too little study, too much google.
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The jump from A to triple A rarely works out.
Don’t sell yourself short, you’re up to it. 😉
If it’s theological discussion, I’m game.
If its simply my religion’s right, yours is wrong; I have no dog in the fight. -
The jump from A to triple A rarely works out.
Don’t sell yourself short, you’re up to it. 😉
If it’s theological discussion, I’m game.
If its simply my religion’s right, yours is wrong; I have no dog in the fight. -
Church of the Innernet
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Church of the Innernet
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Hamous #138;
I haven’t said anything about legal actions. I am only commenting on the spiritual aspect.
But that was my point. If he’s willing to have his ex-wife to go to jail for baptizing his two sons without his consent than what spiritual apsect is he pursuing? If these baptisms were for the Lord, then why should he be willing for his ex-wife to be fined and/or jailed over it? By taking this issue to court would you say he’s rendering these baptisms unto God or unto Ceasar?
But I’m beginning to have a better understanding as to why Mormons seem surprised when people object to the practice of baptizing their deceased family members without their or their families’ consent.
No need to to formulate any conclusion on your own. If you’re courious about something or want clarification, or if you think you’re on to something, just ask.
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Hamous #138;
I haven’t said anything about legal actions. I am only commenting on the spiritual aspect.
But that was my point. If he’s willing to have his ex-wife to go to jail for baptizing his two sons without his consent than what spiritual apsect is he pursuing? If these baptisms were for the Lord, then why should he be willing for his ex-wife to be fined and/or jailed over it? By taking this issue to court would you say he’s rendering these baptisms unto God or unto Ceasar?
But I’m beginning to have a better understanding as to why Mormons seem surprised when people object to the practice of baptizing their deceased family members without their or their families’ consent.
No need to to formulate any conclusion on your own. If you’re courious about something or want clarification, or if you think you’re on to something, just ask.
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Serendipity! This just popped up on Facebook courtesy of Southern Tragedy:
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Serendipity! This just popped up on Facebook courtesy of Southern Tragedy:
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URL Unitarians
Megabyte Mormons
Bandwidth Baptists -
URL Unitarians
Megabyte Mormons
Bandwidth Baptists -
There’s no such thing as re-baptizing.
When done according to how God designed it to be done, this would be correct. The only thing in question is the interpretation as to how God wants baptisms done.
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There’s no such thing as re-baptizing.
When done according to how God designed it to be done, this would be correct. The only thing in question is the interpretation as to how God wants baptisms done.
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No need to to formulate any conclusion on your own. If you’re courious about something or want clarification, or if you think you’re on to something, just ask.
I don’t really need any clarification on the matter of post-mortem baptisms. No offense, but I don’t need to get an explanation from a Jehovah’s Witness either to know their beliefs don’t jibe with my Church.
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No need to to formulate any conclusion on your own. If you’re courious about something or want clarification, or if you think you’re on to something, just ask.
I don’t really need any clarification on the matter of post-mortem baptisms. No offense, but I don’t need to get an explanation from a Jehovah’s Witness either to know their beliefs don’t jibe with my Church.
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Shamaal #142;
Huh? 😕
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Shamaal #142;
Huh? 😕 -
I have no dog in the fight.
That we understand.
We simply can’t figure out if you are trolling or masturbating. -
I have no dog in the fight.
That we understand.
We simply can’t figure out if you are trolling or masturbating. -
Hamous #157;
Do what you think is best. You know where to go if you have any questions or want further information.
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Hamous #157;
Do what you think is best. You know where to go if you have any questions or want further information. -
When done according to how God designed it to be done, this would be correct. The only thing in question is the interpretation as to how God wants baptisms done.
Right. But that wouldn’t be a “re-baptism”, would it? Which is why the Catholic Church doesn’t recognize Mormon baptisms as valid. They do recognize Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Baptist, Lutheran, and various other trinitarian baptisms.
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When done according to how God designed it to be done, this would be correct. The only thing in question is the interpretation as to how God wants baptisms done.
Right. But that wouldn’t be a “re-baptism”, would it? Which is why the Catholic Church doesn’t recognize Mormon baptisms as valid. They do recognize Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Baptist, Lutheran, and various other trinitarian baptisms.
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159
Which in your case is the same thing.
Never mind. -
159
Which in your case is the same thing.
Never mind. -
I would suggest that baptism is an Old Testament concept and was done repeatedly. If it were not an Old Testament concept, if John the Baptist were doing something new, in the Name of Y-VH, he would have been stoned to death. If it were not an OT concept, how would the people have known to come and get baptised, if it were not already a part of their faith practice?
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I would suggest that baptism is an Old Testament concept and was done repeatedly. If it were not an Old Testament concept, if John the Baptist were doing something new, in the Name of Y-VH, he would have been stoned to death. If it were not an OT concept, how would the people have known to come and get baptised, if it were not already a part of their faith practice?
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Masturbatory trolling. Heh.
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Masturbatory trolling. Heh.
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Is the damnable old fossil beginning to worry about his immortal soul?
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Is the damnable old fossil beginning to worry about his immortal soul?
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#158 Darren
The first two paragraphs are your #156 with reasoning and as demonstrated with #161.
The last paragraph has to do with the ritual, aside from sprinkling the infant the parents (sponsors) have to promise to bring the baby up Roman Catholic, with the godparents acting as backup. When our children were baptized and ours being a mixed marriage, I couldn’t make that vow, which is why the godparents (both Roman Catholics) had to.
I imagine Methodists and Presbyterians are the same way but I could be wrong. If I’m not, the sponsorship has a significant impact upon the respective church’s and I would expect that to be a source of friction. -
#158 Darren
The first two paragraphs are your #156 with reasoning and as demonstrated with #161.
The last paragraph has to do with the ritual, aside from sprinkling the infant the parents (sponsors) have to promise to bring the baby up Roman Catholic, with the godparents acting as backup. When our children were baptized and ours being a mixed marriage, I couldn’t make that vow, which is why the godparents (both Roman Catholics) had to.
I imagine Methodists and Presbyterians are the same way but I could be wrong. If I’m not, the sponsorship has a significant impact upon the respective church’s and I would expect that to be a source of friction. -
John the baptizer was indeed baptizing in the Old Testament way.
That all changed after he baptized the Son of God.
John was not baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, as subsequently directed by our Lord. -
John the baptizer was indeed baptizing in the Old Testament way.
That all changed after he baptized the Son of God.
John was not baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, as subsequently directed by our Lord. -
Masturbatory trolling. Heh.
Given the participants it more like a circle jerk.
I won’t speculate as to the identity of the pivot man. -
Masturbatory trolling. Heh.
Given the participants it more like a circle jerk.
I won’t speculate as to the identity of the pivot man. -
“I am baptizing you with water, for repentance, but the one who is coming after me is mightier than I. I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire.” — Matthew 3:10-11
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“I am baptizing you with water, for repentance, but the one who is coming after me is mightier than I. I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire.” — Matthew 3:10-11
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Things in Ireland not going as well as planned
The government said less than half of the country’s 1.6 million households paid the charge by Saturday’s deadline to avoid penalties. And about 5,000 marched in protest against the annual conference of Prime Minister Enda Kenny’s Fine Gael party. …
Kenny said his government had no choice, but to impose the new charge as part of the nation’s efforts to emerge from an international bailout. Ireland already has endured five emergency budgets in four years and expects to face at least four more years of austerity.Imagine that, what screwball economic policies could get an economy as hosed up as America’s was in 2008? Oh yeah ………….
In 1986, Ireland slashed spending in areas such as health expenditures, education, agricultural spending, roads and housing, and the military, while abolishing agencies such as the National Social Services Board, the Health Education Bureau, and regional development organizations. By 1993, government non-interest spending declined to 41 percent of GNP, down from a high of 55 percent of GNP in 1985. Subsequently, it significantly lowered corporate tax rates to 12.5 percent, at a time when the lowest corporate rates in Europe were 30 percent and U.S. rates stood at 35 percent. Since 2004, Ireland also has offered a 20 percent tax credit on research and development.
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Things in Ireland not going as well as planned
The government said less than half of the country’s 1.6 million households paid the charge by Saturday’s deadline to avoid penalties. And about 5,000 marched in protest against the annual conference of Prime Minister Enda Kenny’s Fine Gael party. …
Kenny said his government had no choice, but to impose the new charge as part of the nation’s efforts to emerge from an international bailout. Ireland already has endured five emergency budgets in four years and expects to face at least four more years of austerity.Imagine that, what screwball economic policies could get an economy as hosed up as America’s was in 2008? Oh yeah ………….
In 1986, Ireland slashed spending in areas such as health expenditures, education, agricultural spending, roads and housing, and the military, while abolishing agencies such as the National Social Services Board, the Health Education Bureau, and regional development organizations. By 1993, government non-interest spending declined to 41 percent of GNP, down from a high of 55 percent of GNP in 1985. Subsequently, it significantly lowered corporate tax rates to 12.5 percent, at a time when the lowest corporate rates in Europe were 30 percent and U.S. rates stood at 35 percent. Since 2004, Ireland also has offered a 20 percent tax credit on research and development.
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Hamous;
But that wouldn’t be a “re-baptism”, would it?
Correct, and this goes to the heart of my argument regarding Blake Jarell’s decision to take his wife to court over for having their two sons baptized. This to me seems that he is rendering their baptism unto Ceasar, not unto God, and therefore what spiritual value does their baptism have in his eyes? Call me presumtuous but I say none. If he sees their baptism is unto God then he should rejoice in it. Why involve civil court and the possibility of legal prosecution upon the boy’s mother? If he doesn’t see their baptism as being unto God than what problem should he have in seeking them to be re-baptized?
Which is why the Catholic Church doesn’t recognize Mormon baptisms as valid. They do recognize Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Baptist, Lutheran, and various other trinitarian baptisms.
That is correct. And if that’s what the Catholic Church decides, as it did, than that’s fine with me but I find their decision quite difficult to defend. The Bible says to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Mormons baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. True Christian worship requires to worship the Father through the Son and inspired and sanctified by the Holy Ghost as One Eternal God. Mormons worship the Father through the Son and inspired and sanctified by the Holy Ghost as One Eternal God. This is according to what you and I believe to be the revealed word of God. In that very revealed word of God I fail to find what you say is the centerpoint of the Catholic claim to authority to reject LDS baptism: that is to be “trinitarian”.
The irony is that Mormons are indeed trinitarian in so far as the pure meaning of the word which would mean a unit of three.
and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.
(Bold mine and this is from the second half of Alma 11:44).
A very good summarization of LDS faith and worship is found in the words of John:
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
(John 17)
There is nothing according to the revealed word of God which contradicts Mormon theology of the Godhead. “Holy Trinity” is not part of the revealed word of God but a philosophical conclusion regarding the revealed word of God. Mormons reject the philosophy of the Holy Trinity, not the doctrines behind it according to God’s revealed word. The Catholic Church, therefore, asserts its authority to invalidate Mormon baptisms based upon philosophy, not God’s revealed word, and this was their decision then so be it.
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Hamous;
But that wouldn’t be a “re-baptism”, would it?
Correct, and this goes to the heart of my argument regarding Blake Jarell’s decision to take his wife to court over for having their two sons baptized. This to me seems that he is rendering their baptism unto Ceasar, not unto God, and therefore what spiritual value does their baptism have in his eyes? Call me presumtuous but I say none. If he sees their baptism is unto God then he should rejoice in it. Why involve civil court and the possibility of legal prosecution upon the boy’s mother? If he doesn’t see their baptism as being unto God than what problem should he have in seeking them to be re-baptized?
Which is why the Catholic Church doesn’t recognize Mormon baptisms as valid. They do recognize Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Baptist, Lutheran, and various other trinitarian baptisms.
That is correct. And if that’s what the Catholic Church decides, as it did, than that’s fine with me but I find their decision quite difficult to defend. The Bible says to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Mormons baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. True Christian worship requires to worship the Father through the Son and inspired and sanctified by the Holy Ghost as One Eternal God. Mormons worship the Father through the Son and inspired and sanctified by the Holy Ghost as One Eternal God. This is according to what you and I believe to be the revealed word of God. In that very revealed word of God I fail to find what you say is the centerpoint of the Catholic claim to authority to reject LDS baptism: that is to be “trinitarian”.
The irony is that Mormons are indeed trinitarian in so far as the pure meaning of the word which would mean a unit of three.and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.
(Bold mine and this is from the second half of Alma 11:44).
A very good summarization of LDS faith and worship is found in the words of John:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
(John 17)
There is nothing according to the revealed word of God which contradicts Mormon theology of the Godhead. “Holy Trinity” is not part of the revealed word of God but a philosophical conclusion regarding the revealed word of God. Mormons reject the philosophy of the Holy Trinity, not the doctrines behind it according to God’s revealed word. The Catholic Church, therefore, asserts its authority to invalidate Mormon baptisms based upon philosophy, not God’s revealed word, and this was their decision then so be it. -
I self-edited a part of my #171 finding it judgemental and therefore deleted it. My apologies.
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I self-edited a part of my #171 finding it judgemental and therefore deleted it. My apologies.
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Paul Ryan backing off effectively calling the Pentagon generals liars
“I really misspoke, to be candid with you, Candy. I didn’t mean to make that kind of an impression,” Ryan replied. “So I was clumsy in how I was describing the point I was trying to make.”
But then he follows up with
“What I was attempting to say is that President Obama put out his budget number for the Pentagon first … and then they began the strategy review to conform the budget to meet that number. We think it should have been the other way around.”
If he and the rest of the know-nothings believe the budget should be zero budget based, pass a law. I know these guys are OJT and learning, but pick up a book or consult an expert occasionally.
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Paul Ryan backing off effectively calling the Pentagon generals liars
“I really misspoke, to be candid with you, Candy. I didn’t mean to make that kind of an impression,” Ryan replied. “So I was clumsy in how I was describing the point I was trying to make.”
But then he follows up with
“What I was attempting to say is that President Obama put out his budget number for the Pentagon first … and then they began the strategy review to conform the budget to meet that number. We think it should have been the other way around.”
If he and the rest of the know-nothings believe the budget should be zero budget based, pass a law. I know these guys are OJT and learning, but pick up a book or consult an expert occasionally.
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In that very revealed word of God I fail to find what you say is the centerpoint of the Catholic claim to authority to reject LDS baptism
What authority does the LDS church have to reject ALL other baptisms?
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In that very revealed word of God I fail to find what you say is the centerpoint of the Catholic claim to authority to reject LDS baptism
What authority does the LDS church have to reject ALL other baptisms?
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Whoa ……….. I almost forgot
For those of the Roman Catholic and derived faiths, today is Palm Sunday.
Hundreds of Christian pilgrims marked Palm Sunday in the Holy Land on Sunday, holding masses and processions retracing Jesus’ triumphant return to Jerusalem.
Happy Palm Sunday.
For those of the Orthodox faiths, next Sunday is Palm Sunday. That’s the one I’m looking forward to.
[For those of us who are carnivores, we get meat back in the gumbo on Friday, instead of bait shrimp and leftover fish] -
Whoa ……….. I almost forgot
For those of the Roman Catholic and derived faiths, today is Palm Sunday.Hundreds of Christian pilgrims marked Palm Sunday in the Holy Land on Sunday, holding masses and processions retracing Jesus’ triumphant return to Jerusalem.
Happy Palm Sunday.
For those of the Orthodox faiths, next Sunday is Palm Sunday. That’s the one I’m looking forward to.
[For those of us who are carnivores, we get meat back in the gumbo on Friday, instead of bait shrimp and leftover fish] -
The director of a Texas private school association that came under fire for refusing to reschedule a game held during the Sabbath says the Orthodox Jewish school should have never been allowed in his league.
“We shouldn’t have accepted them in the first place,” said Edd Burleson, director of the Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools.Of course these folks are free to pick and choose whom they want in their club. Where they may run into trouble is if they use public facilities to conduct their business.
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The director of a Texas private school association that came under fire for refusing to reschedule a game held during the Sabbath says the Orthodox Jewish school should have never been allowed in his league.
“We shouldn’t have accepted them in the first place,” said Edd Burleson, director of the Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools.Of course these folks are free to pick and choose whom they want in their club. Where they may run into trouble is if they use public facilities to conduct their business.
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What authority does the LDS church have to reject ALL other baptisms?
Not being flip, the same authority that every religion practices restricting the taking of communion unless you belong to THAT religion.
Shame really cause all Christian “religions” claim to be the “body of Christ”. If that were so then there would be no concern about baptism or the taking of communion/sacraments.
/just sayin, not trying to start crap. -
What authority does the LDS church have to reject ALL other baptisms?
Not being flip, the same authority that every religion practices restricting the taking of communion unless you belong to THAT religion.
Shame really cause all Christian “religions” claim to be the “body of Christ”. If that were so then there would be no concern about baptism or the taking of communion/sacraments.
/just sayin, not trying to start crap. -
Interesting survey about religiosity from the Gallup folks. Mississippi is first with 59% claiming to be very religious. Texas comes in at 11th with 47% claiming to be very religious; if I hadn’t participated it would have been higher. If this was a Drudge Poll the headline would read 53% of Texans are not very religious. 😉
Wisconsin came in at #29 with 37% and Vermont came in last with only 23%. -
Interesting survey about religiosity from the Gallup folks. Mississippi is first with 59% claiming to be very religious. Texas comes in at 11th with 47% claiming to be very religious; if I hadn’t participated it would have been higher. If this was a Drudge Poll the headline would read 53% of Texans are not very religious. 😉
Wisconsin came in at #29 with 37% and Vermont came in last with only 23%. -
Not being flip, the same authority that every religion practices restricting the taking of communion unless you belong to THAT religion.
I wasn’t trying to start a “who’s right; who’s wrong” debate. I was just pointing out the irreconcilable position Darren was forwarding that the Catholic Church had no authority to not recognize LDS baptisms when the LDS church doesn’t recognize ANY other baptisms.
I think the LDS church has the authority to recognize or not recognize any particular dogma or practice any other religion they want when it comes to their own church. In return I only ask the same consideration.
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Not being flip, the same authority that every religion practices restricting the taking of communion unless you belong to THAT religion.
I wasn’t trying to start a “who’s right; who’s wrong” debate. I was just pointing out the irreconcilable position Darren was forwarding that the Catholic Church had no authority to not recognize LDS baptisms when the LDS church doesn’t recognize ANY other baptisms.
I think the LDS church has the authority to recognize or not recognize any particular dogma or practice any other religion they want when it comes to their own church. In return I only ask the same consideration. -
Hamous #174;
What authority does the LDS church have to reject ALL other baptisms?
The authority to baptize which John the Baptist held. In LDS theology this is known as the Aaronic Priesthood.
68 We still continued the work of translation, when, in the ensuing month (May, 1829), we on a certain day went into the woods to pray and inquire of the Lord respecting baptism for the remission of sins, that we found mentioned in the translation of the plates. While we were thus employed, praying and calling upon the Lord, a messenger from heaven descended in a cloud of light, and having laid his hands upon us, he ordained us, saying:
69 Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.
70 He said this Aaronic Priesthood had not the power of laying on hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, but that this should be conferred on us hereafter; and he commanded us to go and be baptized, and gave us directions that I should baptize Oliver Cowdery, and that afterwards he should baptize me.
71 Accordingly we went and were baptized. I baptized him first, and afterwards he baptized me—after which I laid my hands upon his head and ordained him to the Aaronic Priesthood, and afterwards he laid his hands on me and ordained me to the same Priesthood—for so we were commanded.*
72 The messenger who visited us on this occasion and conferred this Priesthood upon us, said that his name was John, the same that is called John the Baptist in the New Testament, and that he acted under the direction of Peter, James and John, who held the keys of the Priesthood of Melchizedek, which Priesthood, he said, would in due time be conferred on us, and that I should be called the first Elder of the Church, and he (Oliver Cowdery) the second. It was on the fifteenth day of May, 1829, that we were ordained under the hand of this messenger, and baptized.
The LDS believe as ancient Isreal believed, in an open cannon of scripture and of revelation. The Catholic Church does not. The LDS believe in doctrines which hold equivalent value as all ancient scripture whereas the Catholic believe that the Holy Bible is the final worevealed Word of God. Therefore it is not difficult to defend LDS claims of a “restoration of all things” within LDS theology itself but this is also why I posited the curiosity as to why they would rely primarily on extra biblical philosophy to be authoritative in invalidating Mormon baptisms around 2001. I therefore find their pronouncement difficult to defend although I recognize their authority to govern their church.
As for the higher authority of the Holy Priesthood John spoke of, here’s a revelation to Joseph Smith which he listened to the voice of Christ:
12 And also with Peter, and James, and John, whom I have sent unto you, by whom I have ordained you and confirmed you to be apostles, and especial witnesses of my name, and bear the keys of your ministry and of the same things which I revealed unto them;
13 Unto whom I have committed the keys of my kingdom, and a dispensation of the gospel for the last times; and for the fulness of times, in the which I will gather together in one all things, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth;
(D&C 27)
Under my understanding, The Catholic Church took no issue against (not used in an accounting, which, by the way, did clarify Shamaal’s original post regarding “baptism against thesoul”, view) with the LDS claim that they Aaronic Priesthood was restored to earth. In fact, if I recall correctly, the Catholic Church saw the LDS calim to this preisthood as a positive though I may be mistaken. This came to me from a “Fr. J” which I had a dialogue with from Shannon’s previous First Things” link over Mormonism and Christianity. A direct link from Fr. J can be seen HERE.
Now, as I expressed to Fr. J, I hope this isn’t the official statement from the Catholic Church because some of the assertions made in this doceoment regarding LDS faith and worship are in some instances not entirely true and in other instances completely false.
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Hamous #174;
What authority does the LDS church have to reject ALL other baptisms?
The authority to baptize which John the Baptist held. In LDS theology this is known as the Aaronic Priesthood.
68 We still continued the work of translation, when, in the ensuing month (May, 1829), we on a certain day went into the woods to pray and inquire of the Lord respecting baptism for the remission of sins, that we found mentioned in the translation of the plates. While we were thus employed, praying and calling upon the Lord, a messenger from heaven descended in a cloud of light, and having laid his hands upon us, he ordained us, saying:
69 Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah, I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.
70 He said this Aaronic Priesthood had not the power of laying on hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, but that this should be conferred on us hereafter; and he commanded us to go and be baptized, and gave us directions that I should baptize Oliver Cowdery, and that afterwards he should baptize me.
71 Accordingly we went and were baptized. I baptized him first, and afterwards he baptized me—after which I laid my hands upon his head and ordained him to the Aaronic Priesthood, and afterwards he laid his hands on me and ordained me to the same Priesthood—for so we were commanded.*
72 The messenger who visited us on this occasion and conferred this Priesthood upon us, said that his name was John, the same that is called John the Baptist in the New Testament, and that he acted under the direction of Peter, James and John, who held the keys of the Priesthood of Melchizedek, which Priesthood, he said, would in due time be conferred on us, and that I should be called the first Elder of the Church, and he (Oliver Cowdery) the second. It was on the fifteenth day of May, 1829, that we were ordained under the hand of this messenger, and baptized.(Joseph Smith History 1).
The LDS believe as ancient Isreal believed, in an open cannon of scripture and of revelation. The Catholic Church does not. The LDS believe in doctrines which hold equivalent value as all ancient scripture whereas the Catholic believe that the Holy Bible is the final worevealed Word of God. Therefore it is not difficult to defend LDS claims of a “restoration of all things” within LDS theology itself but this is also why I posited the curiosity as to why they would rely primarily on extra biblical philosophy to be authoritative in invalidating Mormon baptisms around 2001. I therefore find their pronouncement difficult to defend although I recognize their authority to govern their church.
As for the higher authority of the Holy Priesthood John spoke of, here’s a revelation to Joseph Smith which he listened to the voice of Christ:12 And also with Peter, and James, and John, whom I have sent unto you, by whom I have ordained you and confirmed you to be apostles, and especial witnesses of my name, and bear the keys of your ministry and of the same things which I revealed unto them;
13 Unto whom I have committed the keys of my kingdom, and a dispensation of the gospel for the last times; and for the fulness of times, in the which I will gather together in one all things, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth;(D&C 27)
Under my understanding, The Catholic Church took no issue against (not used in an accounting, which, by the way, did clarify Shamaal’s original post regarding “baptism against thesoul”, view) with the LDS claim that they Aaronic Priesthood was restored to earth. In fact, if I recall correctly, the Catholic Church saw the LDS calim to this preisthood as a positive though I may be mistaken. This came to me from a “Fr. J” which I had a dialogue with from Shannon’s previous First Things” link over Mormonism and Christianity. A direct link from Fr. J can be seen HERE.
Now, as I expressed to Fr. J, I hope this isn’t the official statement from the Catholic Church because some of the assertions made in this doceoment regarding LDS faith and worship are in some instances not entirely true and in other instances completely false. -
Hammie
#179
Heh
I knew that. i just wanted to get a shot in before Darren. 😉 -
Hammie
#179
Heh
I knew that. i just wanted to get a shot in before Darren. 😉 -
Hamous;
I was just pointing out the irreconcilable position Darren was forwarding that the Catholic Church had no authority to not recognize LDS baptisms when the LDS church doesn’t recognize ANY other baptisms.
I pointed out that the Catholic Church points to extra biblical trinitarian philosophy; not the bible, to exclude LDS baptisms.
I think the LDS church has the authority to recognize or not recognize any particular dogma or practice any other religion they want when it comes to their own church. In return I only ask the same consideration.
Here’s what I said:
And if that’s what the Catholic Church decides, as it did, than that’s fine with me
Was that not good enough?
I also said,
The Catholic Church, therefore, asserts its authority to invalidate Mormon baptisms based upon philosophy, not God’s revealed word, and this was their decision then so be it.
What the Catholic Church does with the Catholic Church is their say, not anyone elses.
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Hamous;
I was just pointing out the irreconcilable position Darren was forwarding that the Catholic Church had no authority to not recognize LDS baptisms when the LDS church doesn’t recognize ANY other baptisms.
I pointed out that the Catholic Church points to extra biblical trinitarian philosophy; not the bible, to exclude LDS baptisms.
I think the LDS church has the authority to recognize or not recognize any particular dogma or practice any other religion they want when it comes to their own church. In return I only ask the same consideration.
Here’s what I said:
And if that’s what the Catholic Church decides, as it did, than that’s fine with me
Was that not good enough?
I also said,The Catholic Church, therefore, asserts its authority to invalidate Mormon baptisms based upon philosophy, not God’s revealed word, and this was their decision then so be it.
What the Catholic Church does with the Catholic Church is their say, not anyone elses.
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Squawk #181;
You’re the quickest draw in the blogoshpere.
/Whoa, was that yet another Squawk post that flew by?
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Squawk #181;
You’re the quickest draw in the blogoshpere.
/Whoa, was that yet another Squawk post that flew by? -
Quick, somebody write something before Darren uses up all the pixels !!!!!
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Quick, somebody write something before Darren uses up all the pixels !!!!!
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#159 Shannon, that is the funniest thing I’ve read since Hamous went to the anarchist’s site, who had to call firemen, and called them ‘goonier than road lizards’.
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#159 Shannon, that is the funniest thing I’ve read since Hamous went to the anarchist’s site, who had to call firemen, and called them ‘goonier than road lizards’.
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I pointed out that the Catholic Church points to extra biblical trinitarian philosophy; not the bible, to exclude LDS baptisms.
We’ve been through this before. I’m not going to go back and re-quote scripture but it’s not extra-Biblical. It would be extra-Biblical if it was based on hidden golden plaques buried in Palmyra, New York 4000 years ago.
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I pointed out that the Catholic Church points to extra biblical trinitarian philosophy; not the bible, to exclude LDS baptisms.
We’ve been through this before. I’m not going to go back and re-quote scripture but it’s not extra-Biblical. It would be extra-Biblical if it was based on hidden golden plaques buried in Palmyra, New York 4000 years ago.
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#185 gto – I forgot all about that. Good times…
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#185 gto – I forgot all about that. Good times…
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Dazed after being roused from a sound sleep, scrambling frantically to save as much as possible from the flames and breathing in lots of smoke, Browning said, he was shocked when arson investigators for the Houston Fire Department became verbally aggressive, calling him and Edgell “anti-American” and “anti-federal government.”
The scene happened Feb. 26 at Sedition Books, a politically radical “information shop” opened last year by a cooperative and stationed in an old wood-frame building at 4420 Washington, a site surrounded by new townhomes and other trendy developments.
The nonprofit venture offered literature on anarchism, radical feminism, communism, socialism, animal liberation, deep ecology, gay rights and other viewpoints outside the political mainstream. Sedition Books had also served as a meeting place for the radical community, holding film screenings and “open mic” events.
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Dazed after being roused from a sound sleep, scrambling frantically to save as much as possible from the flames and breathing in lots of smoke, Browning said, he was shocked when arson investigators for the Houston Fire Department became verbally aggressive, calling him and Edgell “anti-American” and “anti-federal government.”
The scene happened Feb. 26 at Sedition Books, a politically radical “information shop” opened last year by a cooperative and stationed in an old wood-frame building at 4420 Washington, a site surrounded by new townhomes and other trendy developments.
The nonprofit venture offered literature on anarchism, radical feminism, communism, socialism, animal liberation, deep ecology, gay rights and other viewpoints outside the political mainstream. Sedition Books had also served as a meeting place for the radical community, holding film screenings and “open mic” events. -
Dazed after being roused from a sound sleep, scrambling frantically to save as much as possible from the flames and breathing in lots of smoke, Browning said, he was shocked when arson investigators for the Houston Fire Department became verbally aggressive, calling him and Edgell “anti-American” and “anti-federal government.”
Why would they be shocked? I would think anarchists would embrace those labels. I thought it was all a prime example of karma for all those anarchist cockroaches that crawl out of the woodwork and burn down thousands of businesses every time there’s a G8 meeting anywhere.
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Dazed after being roused from a sound sleep, scrambling frantically to save as much as possible from the flames and breathing in lots of smoke, Browning said, he was shocked when arson investigators for the Houston Fire Department became verbally aggressive, calling him and Edgell “anti-American” and “anti-federal government.”
Why would they be shocked? I would think anarchists would embrace those labels. I thought it was all a prime example of karma for all those anarchist cockroaches that crawl out of the woodwork and burn down thousands of businesses every time there’s a G8 meeting anywhere.
-
I am just popping in – I ran an errand this afternoon, took a quick-but-much-needed 30 minutes nap (or as much a nap as I could get – the damn Mexican music two doors down is awful loud), skimmed the posts, and I’m sharing this joke with all before I have to take Mammy’s laundry to her. It comes from my very Baptist CPA:
A Baptist preacher and a Catholic priest are sharing lunch one day, and during the friendly conversation the topic turns to the different baptismal rites. The priests begins to query the preacher: “So, tell me, if I’m getting baptized and water only reaches my ankles, is that a valid baptism?”
Preacher: “No.”
Priest: “If it comes up to my knees, is that a valid Baptism?”
Preacher: “No, it isn’t.”
Priest: “What if it reaches my waist?”
Preacher: “Nope.”
Priest: “What if it comes all the way up to my chest?”
Preacher: “Not yet.”
Priest: “Okay, what if the water reaches my chin? Valid yet?”
Preacher: “Nope.”
Priest: “All right, I wade in until the water reaches to my eyebrows. Valid yet?”
Preacher: “Not yet.”
Priest: “What if it comes riiiiiiiiight up to my hairline? Valid?”
Preacher: “Not in my church, no.”
The priest smiles and leans back a bit. “So, it IS the water at the top of the head that does the job, then, isn’t it?”Off to do daughter duty…see you guys later.
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I am just popping in – I ran an errand this afternoon, took a quick-but-much-needed 30 minutes nap (or as much a nap as I could get – the damn Mexican music two doors down is awful loud), skimmed the posts, and I’m sharing this joke with all before I have to take Mammy’s laundry to her. It comes from my very Baptist CPA:
A Baptist preacher and a Catholic priest are sharing lunch one day, and during the friendly conversation the topic turns to the different baptismal rites. The priests begins to query the preacher: “So, tell me, if I’m getting baptized and water only reaches my ankles, is that a valid baptism?”
Preacher: “No.”
Priest: “If it comes up to my knees, is that a valid Baptism?”
Preacher: “No, it isn’t.”
Priest: “What if it reaches my waist?”
Preacher: “Nope.”
Priest: “What if it comes all the way up to my chest?”
Preacher: “Not yet.”
Priest: “Okay, what if the water reaches my chin? Valid yet?”
Preacher: “Nope.”
Priest: “All right, I wade in until the water reaches to my eyebrows. Valid yet?”
Preacher: “Not yet.”
Priest: “What if it comes riiiiiiiiight up to my hairline? Valid?”
Preacher: “Not in my church, no.”
The priest smiles and leans back a bit. “So, it IS the water at the top of the head that does the job, then, isn’t it?”
Off to do daughter duty…see you guys later. -
The wife went out side and, about two minutes later, screamed. Seems a recently weaned juvenile opossum had camped overnight in one of the outdoor kitchenette’s drawers. It has since sought refuge somewhere else in the apparatus and taking the thing apart will more likely injure the animal in the process. As rudely awakened as the critter was, I said it will move on after dark. Opossums usually move on when they are disturbed.
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The wife went out side and, about two minutes later, screamed. Seems a recently weaned juvenile opossum had camped overnight in one of the outdoor kitchenette’s drawers. It has since sought refuge somewhere else in the apparatus and taking the thing apart will more likely injure the animal in the process. As rudely awakened as the critter was, I said it will move on after dark. Opossums usually move on when they are disturbed.
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Well, I broke down and bought Mrs. Shamaal her consumer report best buy, Hoover vacuum cleaner taxfree off the internet.
I got a $20 rebate coupon from Hoover and free two day shipping if I joined the Amazon Prime Club. The catch on the club was free joining for 30 days and automated renewal/billing after the free period. To be fair these guys pointed out I could opt out of the automated renewal/billing by navigating to a web page and unchecking it, which I did. I could have saved another $30 by signing up for their credit card, but that’s more grief than I need.
This Thursday Mrs. Shamaal will once again be performing all of her domestic duties. -
Well, I broke down and bought Mrs. Shamaal her consumer report best buy, Hoover vacuum cleaner taxfree off the internet.
I got a $20 rebate coupon from Hoover and free two day shipping if I joined the Amazon Prime Club. The catch on the club was free joining for 30 days and automated renewal/billing after the free period. To be fair these guys pointed out I could opt out of the automated renewal/billing by navigating to a web page and unchecking it, which I did. I could have saved another $30 by signing up for their credit card, but that’s more grief than I need.
This Thursday Mrs. Shamaal will once again be performing all of her domestic duties. -
Good one tt. 😉
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Good one tt. 😉
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Well, we had a great day, tooling around Clear Lake/Clear Creek most of the day. My Hunting buddy and his wife went with us and it’s the first time we’ve been out in a boat together since the camping trips to Wolf Creek Park on Lake Livingston back in the 90’s, when the kids were younger. I wanted to get an early start so we could head out to Redfish Island, (before the wind picks up) but my wife had to drive back from Richmond so we launched the boat about 10:15, not bad really. It was about 11:00 before we got to the bay and it wasn’t too bad at first but just got rougher the further we went, 25 MPH was about all your kidney’s could stand. After about half way I said “let’s don’t and say we did” and headed back. The one thing that amazes me about this boat is how much LESS fuel it burns than the last one, I’ve always know that a stern drive (4 stroke) burns about 1/2 as much fuel as an outboard (2 stroke) but we had 2/3 of a tank left after being out all day! In the old Sea Ray we’d have had maybe a 1/4 tank left. We went up the creek almost to Dixie Farm Road and at 2351, I tasted the water and it was fresh, as expected. Last year during the drought that water there was as salty as the bay. About 3:30 we headed to Outriggers to eat and it was a ZOO, we almost didn’t find a space at the dock. We had to go all around to the back side. The upside, we were out of the wind, the down side, the cute little gals in their shorts didn’t dock our boat for us. 🙁 BTW; They are GREAT; I’ve seen them tie up a boat for Idiots that didn’t know what they were doing…. And no Tim, it wasn’t me. The guys had Oyster Po’ boys and the gals had jambalaya and some kind of grilled tuna, hamburger looking, thing. Got back home about 5:30 and flushed/washed the boat and now I’m having a cold beer! I didn’t get but about 3 today since I was the captain. YUP Life is GOOD 😉
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Well, we had a great day, tooling around Clear Lake/Clear Creek most of the day. My Hunting buddy and his wife went with us and it’s the first time we’ve been out in a boat together since the camping trips to Wolf Creek Park on Lake Livingston back in the 90’s, when the kids were younger. I wanted to get an early start so we could head out to Redfish Island, (before the wind picks up) but my wife had to drive back from Richmond so we launched the boat about 10:15, not bad really. It was about 11:00 before we got to the bay and it wasn’t too bad at first but just got rougher the further we went, 25 MPH was about all your kidney’s could stand. After about half way I said “let’s don’t and say we did” and headed back. The one thing that amazes me about this boat is how much LESS fuel it burns than the last one, I’ve always know that a stern drive (4 stroke) burns about 1/2 as much fuel as an outboard (2 stroke) but we had 2/3 of a tank left after being out all day! In the old Sea Ray we’d have had maybe a 1/4 tank left. We went up the creek almost to Dixie Farm Road and at 2351, I tasted the water and it was fresh, as expected. Last year during the drought that water there was as salty as the bay. About 3:30 we headed to Outriggers to eat and it was a ZOO, we almost didn’t find a space at the dock. We had to go all around to the back side. The upside, we were out of the wind, the down side, the cute little gals in their shorts didn’t dock our boat for us. 🙁 BTW; They are GREAT; I’ve seen them tie up a boat for Idiots that didn’t know what they were doing…. And no Tim, it wasn’t me. The guys had Oyster Po’ boys and the gals had jambalaya and some kind of grilled tuna, hamburger looking, thing. Got back home about 5:30 and flushed/washed the boat and now I’m having a cold beer! I didn’t get but about 3 today since I was the captain. YUP Life is GOOD 😉
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A though about the fuel economy; the old Sea Ray 18’, 122 CID, 150 HP, outboard, 1850 Lbs dry. The new one 21’ Sea Ray, 305 CID Chey, 220 HP, 3500 Lbs dry. The new one is a little faster the old one quicker, which makes sense.
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A though about the fuel economy; the old Sea Ray 18’, 122 CID, 150 HP, outboard, 1850 Lbs dry. The new one 21’ Sea Ray, 305 CID Chey, 220 HP, 3500 Lbs dry. The new one is a little faster the old one quicker, which makes sense.
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Good evening Hamsters. Another beautiful day is settling in to the shades of night, a fleetingly glorious sky to the west, the golden orb just below the treeline but brilliant still. Emerald greens deepen and soften as the light slips away, the breeze barely lingers, the mares wait next to the barn to come in for dinner. Bay Cameo begins losing contrast against the deepening shadows, but white Mara and Contessa still stand out. The golden sky becomes rosy at the horizon, and the bright half Moon directly overhead is ready to claim her realm. Yard lights blink on, a few birds call on their way to roost, the air is sweet, and all is calm. Thank you, Lord.
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Good evening Hamsters. Another beautiful day is settling in to the shades of night, a fleetingly glorious sky to the west, the golden orb just below the treeline but brilliant still. Emerald greens deepen and soften as the light slips away, the breeze barely lingers, the mares wait next to the barn to come in for dinner. Bay Cameo begins losing contrast against the deepening shadows, but white Mara and Contessa still stand out. The golden sky becomes rosy at the horizon, and the bright half Moon directly overhead is ready to claim her realm. Yard lights blink on, a few birds call on their way to roost, the air is sweet, and all is calm. Thank you, Lord.
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Personally I never engage in discussions about religion, politic, money, sex or anything controversial.
/Insert huge lightning strike here.
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Personally I never engage in discussions about religion, politic, money, sex or anything controversial.
/Insert huge lightning strike here. -
Adee, some of your best writing there. Thanks for posting.
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Adee, some of your best writing there. Thanks for posting.
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I just listened to the 9:00 PM EDT broadcast of ABC News on WABC in New York.
It sounded like it was written Al Sharpton’s PR firm. It was a blatant, transparent promotion of all the worst race card deceits and lies ever peddled. The first two minutes of the news was nothing more than cheerleading for a race riot.
It was beyond embarrassing.
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I just listened to the 9:00 PM EDT broadcast of ABC News on WABC in New York.
It sounded like it was written Al Sharpton’s PR firm. It was a blatant, transparent promotion of all the worst race card deceits and lies ever peddled. The first two minutes of the news was nothing more than cheerleading for a race riot.
It was beyond embarrassing. -
200
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200
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Darren, since Hammy broached the subject in his #186:
It would be extra-Biblical if it was based on hidden golden plaques buried in Palmyra, New York 4000 years
Do you mind if I ask, how does the modern Morman church view the fact that there was a hoax involved in the genesis of the LDS branch of Christianity? How do you view it?
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Darren, since Hammy broached the subject in his #186:
It would be extra-Biblical if it was based on hidden golden plaques buried in Palmyra, New York 4000 years
Do you mind if I ask, how does the modern Morman church view the fact that there was a hoax involved in the genesis of the LDS branch of Christianity? How do you view it?
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mharper;
Do you mind if I ask, how does the modern Morman church view the fact that there was a hoax involved in the genesis of the LDS branch of Christianity? How do you view it?
Do you mean the Kinderhook plates?
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mharper;
Do you mind if I ask, how does the modern Morman church view the fact that there was a hoax involved in the genesis of the LDS branch of Christianity? How do you view it?
Do you mean the Kinderhook plates?
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#196 Adee, We sat out on the deck just before dark and watched our two pairs of Martins catching skeeters and saw a House Finch at the feeder with his scarlet streaked head and I thought Yup, Life Is Good! I just wish that I could say it like you can. I always enjoy your posts.
Also two pairs are better than nothing, we used to have 20 or more in two houses but I’ve not kept the squaters out as good as I should and now we only have one house. -
#196 Adee, We sat out on the deck just before dark and watched our two pairs of Martins catching skeeters and saw a House Finch at the feeder with his scarlet streaked head and I thought Yup, Life Is Good! I just wish that I could say it like you can. I always enjoy your posts.
Also two pairs are better than nothing, we used to have 20 or more in two houses but I’ve not kept the squaters out as good as I should and now we only have one house. -
I’m not going to go back and re-quote scripture but it’s not extra-Biblical. It would be extra-Biblical if it was based on hidden golden plaques buried in Palmyra, New York 4000 years ago.
4,000 years ago? Wow, here since my seminary days I had thought they were buried in Palmayra about 1,600 years ago. Silly me.
The reason I say it’s extra biblical is because, as I pointed out previously, “Holy Trinity”, “same substance”, “and “immaterial” (these reflect the essence of the Nicene Creed and subsequent creeds regarding the trinitarian formula) are not biblical. Period. Back in the day when this was brought up for I think a second time between you and me, you yourself had to make sure that I understaood…in fact you put me on a “course correction”…that these were beliefs, not doctrines. By that I understood your saying that the creed of the fourth and subsequent centeries were beliefs (which are naturally subject to change) based upon doctrine, not vice-versa. Enter my statement here today that I find the Catholic Church’s reason to invalidate, which they may do if they want, Mormon baptism difficult to defend because they cite “belief”, not doctrine, to invalidate it as non-Christian. How does that work exactly? The Catholic Church declares that the Bible is the only revealed word of God and yet skips that source of revelation entirely to denounce LDS baptisms as not valid and goes straight for the fourth century creed to invalidate it? And the LDS do not have any problem of extra biblical revelation so long as it is received by God’s annointed prophets. It is the LDS who claim an open cannon of scripture and therefore at any time, revelation may come and it will be just as authoritative as the Holy Bible, Book of Mormon, and all other previous revealed word of God.
Here, recall the Catholic declaration that LDS baptisms are not valid or Christian because of the latter’s, from my understanding, “serious departure from the Trinity”, and replace “Trinity”, which is not biblical, with “Godhead, which is indeed biblical. You see how absurd that makes the declaration sound? The LDS absolutely believes in the Godhead which comprises of the Father, the “one true God” as Jesus put it, The Son, who is the YHWH of the Old Testament, and the Holy Ghost. That’s it. No other beings/persons in there. And LDS worship is exclusively the Godhead with the Father as “the Most High”, and Jesus Christ at the very center of all that is and particularly for our eternal salvation, and the holy Spirit which guides us and sanctifies us. What part of the Bible, the revealed word of God, does any of this contradict? It is in the declaration of “same substance” that LDS reject. And that’s not doctrinal, it’s a belief which is strikingly similar to Hellenistic philosophy.
At this pint I think I said what needed to be said and I have no further desire to continue this dialogue. I do not ever mind sharing what I believe but I think this has become a debate which I find tiresome and wearisome and I do not think it’ll result in anything good. If you have anything else to say I do not mind you getting the last word in (though I would ask to respond to anything new brought into the discussion) and I do thank you for your ear and for your allowing me to share my thoughts on your blog. I think you’re a man of high character (at least that’s what they say 😉 )
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I’m not going to go back and re-quote scripture but it’s not extra-Biblical. It would be extra-Biblical if it was based on hidden golden plaques buried in Palmyra, New York 4000 years ago.
4,000 years ago? Wow, here since my seminary days I had thought they were buried in Palmayra about 1,600 years ago. Silly me.
The reason I say it’s extra biblical is because, as I pointed out previously, “Holy Trinity”, “same substance”, “and “immaterial” (these reflect the essence of the Nicene Creed and subsequent creeds regarding the trinitarian formula) are not biblical. Period. Back in the day when this was brought up for I think a second time between you and me, you yourself had to make sure that I understaood…in fact you put me on a “course correction”…that these were beliefs, not doctrines. By that I understood your saying that the creed of the fourth and subsequent centeries were beliefs (which are naturally subject to change) based upon doctrine, not vice-versa. Enter my statement here today that I find the Catholic Church’s reason to invalidate, which they may do if they want, Mormon baptism difficult to defend because they cite “belief”, not doctrine, to invalidate it as non-Christian. How does that work exactly? The Catholic Church declares that the Bible is the only revealed word of God and yet skips that source of revelation entirely to denounce LDS baptisms as not valid and goes straight for the fourth century creed to invalidate it? And the LDS do not have any problem of extra biblical revelation so long as it is received by God’s annointed prophets. It is the LDS who claim an open cannon of scripture and therefore at any time, revelation may come and it will be just as authoritative as the Holy Bible, Book of Mormon, and all other previous revealed word of God.
Here, recall the Catholic declaration that LDS baptisms are not valid or Christian because of the latter’s, from my understanding, “serious departure from the Trinity”, and replace “Trinity”, which is not biblical, with “Godhead, which is indeed biblical. You see how absurd that makes the declaration sound? The LDS absolutely believes in the Godhead which comprises of the Father, the “one true God” as Jesus put it, The Son, who is the YHWH of the Old Testament, and the Holy Ghost. That’s it. No other beings/persons in there. And LDS worship is exclusively the Godhead with the Father as “the Most High”, and Jesus Christ at the very center of all that is and particularly for our eternal salvation, and the holy Spirit which guides us and sanctifies us. What part of the Bible, the revealed word of God, does any of this contradict? It is in the declaration of “same substance” that LDS reject. And that’s not doctrinal, it’s a belief which is strikingly similar to Hellenistic philosophy.
At this pint I think I said what needed to be said and I have no further desire to continue this dialogue. I do not ever mind sharing what I believe but I think this has become a debate which I find tiresome and wearisome and I do not think it’ll result in anything good. If you have anything else to say I do not mind you getting the last word in (though I would ask to respond to anything new brought into the discussion) and I do thank you for your ear and for your allowing me to share my thoughts on your blog. I think you’re a man of high character (at least that’s what they say 😉 ) -
#202 Darren
Yes, I had forgotten what the “salted” artifacts were called.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinderhook_plates
I realize now that I had never heard of (or had forgotten) the “golden plaques” that Hammy referred to. But the forged and planted Kinderhook Plates were a hoax. That is what I was asking about, and it isn’t directly related to Hammy’s post. I confused the two things.
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#202 Darren
Yes, I had forgotten what the “salted” artifacts were called.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinderhook_plates
I realize now that I had never heard of (or had forgotten) the “golden plaques” that Hammy referred to. But the forged and planted Kinderhook Plates were a hoax. That is what I was asking about, and it isn’t directly related to Hammy’s post. I confused the two things. -
Mississippi is first with 59% claiming to be very religious.
Hey Alabama comes in at third behind Utah, I’ll take that.
FWIW; Mississippi gives the MOST to charity, per capita than any other state and it’s one of the poorest. -
Mississippi is first with 59% claiming to be very religious.
Hey Alabama comes in at third behind Utah, I’ll take that.
FWIW; Mississippi gives the MOST to charity, per capita than any other state and it’s one of the poorest. -
#194 SuperDave
Somebody else remembers Redfish Island. The original far western end of Hannahs Reef silted away years ago. Where we once camped out over night (no trees for hammocks), caught squid in seine nets, and shot skeet is long gone. Like the rest of the bay islands left, Smith Point, Texas City, they are bird sanctuaries. So the posted signs say. The signs ought to mention the islands are submerged during high spring tides. But I’m pretty sure the birds know that and do not to nest there. Stupid liberals do not know what the little birds understand.
Spent the day on the Dickinson Bay side of April Fool Point. I know where Eagle Point is named from, need to look the latter up some day. A few weeks ago I moved/wound up in Clear Lake. Taking a a Catalina 22, 4hp outboard, through that crowd/channel was an experience. I thought I would be the slow one… But the fuel economy improves a bit after that.
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#194 SuperDave
Somebody else remembers Redfish Island. The original far western end of Hannahs Reef silted away years ago. Where we once camped out over night (no trees for hammocks), caught squid in seine nets, and shot skeet is long gone. Like the rest of the bay islands left, Smith Point, Texas City, they are bird sanctuaries. So the posted signs say. The signs ought to mention the islands are submerged during high spring tides. But I’m pretty sure the birds know that and do not to nest there. Stupid liberals do not know what the little birds understand.
Spent the day on the Dickinson Bay side of April Fool Point. I know where Eagle Point is named from, need to look the latter up some day. A few weeks ago I moved/wound up in Clear Lake. Taking a a Catalina 22, 4hp outboard, through that crowd/channel was an experience. I thought I would be the slow one… But the fuel economy improves a bit after that. -
mharper42, I could’ve used the expertise of ”Iron Mary Cash” to navigate the
treacherous waters in upper Clear Creek today. 😀 -
mharper42, I could’ve used the expertise of ”Iron Mary Cash” to navigate the
treacherous waters in upper Clear Creek today. 😀 -
as I pointed out previously, “Holy Trinity”, “same substance”, “and “immaterial” (these reflect the essence of the Nicene Creed and subsequent creeds regarding the trinitarian formula) are not biblical. Period.
Yes they are. Period.
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as I pointed out previously, “Holy Trinity”, “same substance”, “and “immaterial” (these reflect the essence of the Nicene Creed and subsequent creeds regarding the trinitarian formula) are not biblical. Period.
Yes they are. Period.
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Somebody else remembers Redfish Island.
Do I remember it?! HE!! Yes, I remember tying up to all the sail boats rafted together in my Buddy’s bass boat on Saturday nights and going from boat to boat getting all the free beer we wanted. The first time I went there was in 1982,…I think,.. and there were a few small scrub pines on one end of it, then in 83 Alicia delivered a deadly blow and in a few years it was gone, I ran over it sometime in the 90’s, as it was about a foot under the water. Then in 2002 the US Corps of Engineers rebuilt it with spoils, and it’s a lot smaller now but does have a small beach in j-hook part. We went there last year for the first in years. 😉
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Somebody else remembers Redfish Island.
Do I remember it?! HE!! Yes, I remember tying up to all the sail boats rafted together in my Buddy’s bass boat on Saturday nights and going from boat to boat getting all the free beer we wanted. The first time I went there was in 1982,…I think,.. and there were a few small scrub pines on one end of it, then in 83 Alicia delivered a deadly blow and in a few years it was gone, I ran over it sometime in the 90’s, as it was about a foot under the water. Then in 2002 the US Corps of Engineers rebuilt it with spoils, and it’s a lot smaller now but does have a small beach in j-hook part. We went there last year for the first in years. 😉
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you yourself had to make sure that I understaood…in fact you put me on a “course correction”…that these were beliefs, not doctrines.
I never said that. The Nicene Creed was developed specifically because there were conflicting teachings within the early Church. The Creed settled once and for all what Catholic doctrine was. Basically, it is a summary of that doctrine. Further, it is also a summary of all the protestant reformation churches as well as all the Orthodox churches (leaving out filioque) doctrines.
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you yourself had to make sure that I understaood…in fact you put me on a “course correction”…that these were beliefs, not doctrines.
I never said that. The Nicene Creed was developed specifically because there were conflicting teachings within the early Church. The Creed settled once and for all what Catholic doctrine was. Basically, it is a summary of that doctrine. Further, it is also a summary of all the protestant reformation churches as well as all the Orthodox churches (leaving out filioque) doctrines.
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If you don’t know where Redfish Island is, go to Google maps and type in; 29.517660, -94.890815
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If you don’t know where Redfish Island is, go to Google maps and type in; 29.517660, -94.890815
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The Nicene Creed was developed specifically because there were conflicting teachings within the early Church. The Creed settled once and for all what Catholic doctrine was. Basically, it is a summary of that doctrine. Further, it is also a summary of all the protestant reformation churches as well as all the Orthodox churches (leaving out filioque) doctrines.
Yup
/And that affirmation is from a gentle gentile.
/Who says the Catholics and gentiles like me can’t agree on things?
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The Nicene Creed was developed specifically because there were conflicting teachings within the early Church. The Creed settled once and for all what Catholic doctrine was. Basically, it is a summary of that doctrine. Further, it is also a summary of all the protestant reformation churches as well as all the Orthodox churches (leaving out filioque) doctrines.
Yup
/And that affirmation is from a gentle gentile.
/Who says the Catholics and gentiles like me can’t agree on things? -
#208
Ter be honest, Bloody Davey me lad, ole Iron Mary done lost ‘er sea legs and would be wulpin’ in them swells. -
#208
Ter be honest, Bloody Davey me lad, ole Iron Mary done lost ‘er sea legs and would be wulpin’ in them swells. -
#215 😀
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#215 😀
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Well I’m TARRED, hittting the sack, will be sawing gourds by 10:15,. Nytol 😉
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Well I’m TARRED, hittting the sack, will be sawing gourds by 10:15,. Nytol 😉
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Darren, I trust I did not annoy you with my question. I have wondered about that, but never asked a Mormon before, although I do know several and consider them good friends.
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Darren, I trust I did not annoy you with my question. I have wondered about that, but never asked a Mormon before, although I do know several and consider them good friends.
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Super Dave, ever shoot up a spinnaker there?
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Super Dave, ever shoot up a spinnaker there?
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Nothing’s ever simple.
We always said the Apostle’s Creed. The Nicene Creed was reserved for special occasions with some sort of audience participation. There was also an Athanasian Creed that that they tried to teach us in Catechism but did not have to rote learn.
I believe in God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell. The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Christian Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. -
Nothing’s ever simple.
We always said the Apostle’s Creed. The Nicene Creed was reserved for special occasions with some sort of audience participation. There was also an Athanasian Creed that that they tried to teach us in Catechism but did not have to rote learn.I believe in God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell. The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Christian Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen. -
maharper;
You’re in luck. I had never known (or forgotten myself) about the kindehook plates until just last year. When I can across it I looked into the matter and I think I found something which may be of interest to you.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has an official publicaton called the Ensign. Though not everything in there is to be taken authoritatively, it is a highly reliable source of information which speaks about the LDS Church. There was one article called Kinderhook Plates Brought to Joseph Smith Appear to Be a Nineteenth-Century Hoax by Stanley B. Kimball.
Kimbal begins as follows:
Stanley B. Kimball, “Kinderhook Plates Brought to Joseph Smith Appear to Be a Nineteenth-Century Hoax,” Ensign, Aug. 1981, 66
A recent electronic and chemical analysis of a metal plate (one of six original plates) brought in 1843 to the Prophet Joseph Smith in Nauvoo, Illinois, appears to solve a previously unanswered question in Church history, helping to further evidence that the plate is what its producers later said it was—a nineteenth-century attempt to lure Joseph Smith into making a translation of ancient-looking characters that had been etched into the plates.Joseph Smith did not make the hoped-for translation. In fact, no evidence exists that he manifested any further interest in the plates after early examination of them, although some members of the Church hoped that they would prove to be significant. But the plates never did.
Kimball reconstructs key parts of the history ofthe Kinderhook plates and reports of Joseph Smith saying that he would translate them. Kimball then says the following:
These two oblique references to a “translation” were followed thirteen years later by a more direct published statement that until recently was wrongly thought to have been written by Joseph Smith himself. On September 3 and 10, 1856, the following paragraphs appeared in the Deseret News as part of the serialized “History of Joseph Smith”:
And immediately following he says this:
“[May 1, 1843:] I insert fac similes of the six brass plates found near Kinderhook, in Pike county, Illinois, on April 23, by Mr. R. Wiley and others, while excavating a large mound. They found a skeleton about six feet from the surface of the earth, which must have stood nine feet high. The plates were found on the breast of the skeleton, and were covered on both sides with ancient characters.
“I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the ruler of heaven and earth.” (Then followed a reprint of material from the Times and Seasons article.)
Although this account appears to be the writing of Joseph Smith, it is actually an excerpt from a journal of William Clayton. It has been well known that the serialized “History of Joseph Smith” consists largely of items from other persons’ personal journals and other sources, collected during Joseph Smith’s lifetime and continued after the Saints were in Utah, then edited and pieced together to form a history of the Prophet’s life “in his own words.” It was not uncommon in the nineteenth century for biographers to put the narrative in the first person when compiling a biographical work, even though the subject of the biography did not actually say or write all the words attributed to him; thus the narrative would represent a faithful report of what others felt would be helpful to print. The Clayton journal excerpt was one item used in this way. For example, the words “I have translated a portion” originally read “President J. has translated a portion. …” 3
Where the ideas written by William Clayton originated is unknown. However, as will be pointed out later, speculation about the plates and their possible content was apparently quite unrestrained in Nauvoo when the plates first appeared. In any case, this altered version of the extract from William Clayton’s journal was reprinted in the Millennial Star of 15 January 1859, and, unfortunately, was finally carried over into official Church history when the “History of Joseph Smith” was edited into book form as the History of the Church in 1909. 4
TESTING:
One of the Kinderhook plates survived and made it to Chicago where in 1920 Charles F. guthner did tests on the plate and concluded it was etched “with a pointed instrument” but not corroded with acid. Other tests contradicted his conclusions.
In 1969 Dr. Paul Cheesman of Brigham Young University was granted permission by the Chicago Historical Society to perform non destrctive exhaustive tests on the plates at BYU and concludedthat more testing was needed.
In 1980 Stanely B. kimball, the author of the article, got permission from the same society to perform destructive testing on the plate. This is when a portion ofthe plate would be destroyed during its testing process. “Professor D. Lynn Johnson of the Department of Materials Science and Engineering at Northwestern University” did the testing. Using an electron microscope he perfomed the tests and concluded that nitric acid was used to sceth in the heiroglyphs onto the plate.
TRANSLATION BY JOSEPH SMITH:
Kimball writes:
Very soon afterward the plates were removed from Nauvoo, for the Times and Seasons editorial, which was written perhaps on Wednesday or Thursday (May 3 or 4), said: “Mr. Smith has had those plates, what his opinion concerning them is, we have not yet ascertained. The gentleman that owns them has taken them away, or we should have given a fac simile of the plates and characters in this number. We are informed however, that he purposes returning with them for translation; if so, we may be able yet to furnish our readers with it.”
This statement indicates that there was no known opinion from Joseph Smith regardingthe Kinderhhook plates. in light of the exctiement these plates generated in the community, this is quite significant since if Smith had said anything, it would have been passed along quite rapidly.
And then there is this:
In any case, the translation for which hope had been expressed in the Times and Seasons did not appear. In a letter dated April 8, 1878, Wilbur Fugate recalled: “We understood Jo Smith said [the plates] would make a book of 1200 pages but he would not agree to translate them until they were sent to the Antiquarian society at Philadelphia, France, and England.” Furthermore, a review of other entries in Joseph Smith’s history indicate that he was occupied during the following weeks with mayoral duties, Church business, the Nauvoo Legion, and four different trips to neighboring cities; there is no indication of translating activities. 15 Then on June 23, just one day before publication of the broadside that repeated the Saints’ hopeful expectation of an eventual translation, the Prophet was abducted by Missourians who tried to get him to Missouri for prosecution on charges of “treason.” He made it back to Nauvoo on June 30, but the habeas corpus proceedings took up more than two weeks of his time.
No indication of time available to Smith to translate the plates if he so desired. And then the plates obviously needed to be physically in Nauvoo in order to be translated by one who was also physically in Nauvoo.
Just when the plates were taken from Nauvoo for the second and perhaps final time is uncertain. But we know that by fall of that same year they were back in Robert Wiley’s possession, for on November 15 he wrote a letter to one J. J. Harding suggesting that he was interested in selling the plates to “the National Institute,” and that he was also interested in the “opinions of your different Entiquarian friends.” In reference to having the plates examined by “the Antiquarian society at Philadelphia, France, and England,” Wilbur Fugate went on to say: “They were sent and the answer was that there were no such Hyeroglyphics known, and if there ever had been, they had long since passed away. Then Smith began his translation.” (The reference to Joseph Smith having begun a “translation” of the plates is in error, since they were never returned to Nauvoo. The Prophet died a martyr the following year.)
(Bold mine)
In conclusion, Kimball’s article shows a) a lack of statements by Joseph Smith regarding the desire to translate the plates, b) a lack of time to translate the plates while they were physically in Joseph Smith’s proximity, and c) that the indication that “Smith began his translation’ is not backed up with any known evidence that the plates were in Nauvoo where Smith resided and was physically present.
Sorry that took a while to type up. i read that article about a year ago and neededto speed read through it to recall the details and you know how, ummmm, “good” I am at speed reading.
One part that interests me of the article is that part ofthe excitement of the kinderhhook plates was that the LDS people could use them to authenticate Joseph Smith’s claim to have translated a record from golden plates. This inteerests me because the story of the Book of Mormon does not begin in the americas but in the Near East, Jerusalem to be exact. this is also where the commencement of keeping records on brass plates in trhe Book of Mormon story. Here’s some discoveries of records being kept on plates fromthe Near East. These discoveries post date Joseph Smith’s claim to have found the plates he used. Mike R. Ash gives a written account of some ofthe discoveries made inthe near East which involved in keeping records on metal plates inlcuding one from the Dead Sea Scrolls discoveries as well as another discovery dated tothe 12th century BC which involved a letter written on a copper plate in Hebrew and buried in a stone box “carefully made”.
So far as authenticating Joseph Smith’s account ofthe golden plates, this by no means “proves” it is true, in fact confirmation of the truth of it comes from the Holy Ghost, these discoveries are interesting to me in light of Joseph Smith’s claims to have received a record on golden plates.
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maharper;
You’re in luck. I had never known (or forgotten myself) about the kindehook plates until just last year. When I can across it I looked into the matter and I think I found something which may be of interest to you.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has an official publicaton called the Ensign. Though not everything in there is to be taken authoritatively, it is a highly reliable source of information which speaks about the LDS Church. There was one article called Kinderhook Plates Brought to Joseph Smith Appear to Be a Nineteenth-Century Hoax by Stanley B. Kimball.
Kimbal begins as follows:Stanley B. Kimball, “Kinderhook Plates Brought to Joseph Smith Appear to Be a Nineteenth-Century Hoax,” Ensign, Aug. 1981, 66
A recent electronic and chemical analysis of a metal plate (one of six original plates) brought in 1843 to the Prophet Joseph Smith in Nauvoo, Illinois, appears to solve a previously unanswered question in Church history, helping to further evidence that the plate is what its producers later said it was—a nineteenth-century attempt to lure Joseph Smith into making a translation of ancient-looking characters that had been etched into the plates.
Joseph Smith did not make the hoped-for translation. In fact, no evidence exists that he manifested any further interest in the plates after early examination of them, although some members of the Church hoped that they would prove to be significant. But the plates never did.Kimball reconstructs key parts of the history ofthe Kinderhook plates and reports of Joseph Smith saying that he would translate them. Kimball then says the following:
These two oblique references to a “translation” were followed thirteen years later by a more direct published statement that until recently was wrongly thought to have been written by Joseph Smith himself. On September 3 and 10, 1856, the following paragraphs appeared in the Deseret News as part of the serialized “History of Joseph Smith”:
And immediately following he says this:
“[May 1, 1843:] I insert fac similes of the six brass plates found near Kinderhook, in Pike county, Illinois, on April 23, by Mr. R. Wiley and others, while excavating a large mound. They found a skeleton about six feet from the surface of the earth, which must have stood nine feet high. The plates were found on the breast of the skeleton, and were covered on both sides with ancient characters.
“I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the ruler of heaven and earth.” (Then followed a reprint of material from the Times and Seasons article.)
Although this account appears to be the writing of Joseph Smith, it is actually an excerpt from a journal of William Clayton. It has been well known that the serialized “History of Joseph Smith” consists largely of items from other persons’ personal journals and other sources, collected during Joseph Smith’s lifetime and continued after the Saints were in Utah, then edited and pieced together to form a history of the Prophet’s life “in his own words.” It was not uncommon in the nineteenth century for biographers to put the narrative in the first person when compiling a biographical work, even though the subject of the biography did not actually say or write all the words attributed to him; thus the narrative would represent a faithful report of what others felt would be helpful to print. The Clayton journal excerpt was one item used in this way. For example, the words “I have translated a portion” originally read “President J. has translated a portion. …” 3
Where the ideas written by William Clayton originated is unknown. However, as will be pointed out later, speculation about the plates and their possible content was apparently quite unrestrained in Nauvoo when the plates first appeared. In any case, this altered version of the extract from William Clayton’s journal was reprinted in the Millennial Star of 15 January 1859, and, unfortunately, was finally carried over into official Church history when the “History of Joseph Smith” was edited into book form as the History of the Church in 1909. 4TESTING:
One of the Kinderhook plates survived and made it to Chicago where in 1920 Charles F. guthner did tests on the plate and concluded it was etched “with a pointed instrument” but not corroded with acid. Other tests contradicted his conclusions.
In 1969 Dr. Paul Cheesman of Brigham Young University was granted permission by the Chicago Historical Society to perform non destrctive exhaustive tests on the plates at BYU and concludedthat more testing was needed.
In 1980 Stanely B. kimball, the author of the article, got permission from the same society to perform destructive testing on the plate. This is when a portion ofthe plate would be destroyed during its testing process. “Professor D. Lynn Johnson of the Department of Materials Science and Engineering at Northwestern University” did the testing. Using an electron microscope he perfomed the tests and concluded that nitric acid was used to sceth in the heiroglyphs onto the plate.
TRANSLATION BY JOSEPH SMITH:
Kimball writes:Very soon afterward the plates were removed from Nauvoo, for the Times and Seasons editorial, which was written perhaps on Wednesday or Thursday (May 3 or 4), said: “Mr. Smith has had those plates, what his opinion concerning them is, we have not yet ascertained. The gentleman that owns them has taken them away, or we should have given a fac simile of the plates and characters in this number. We are informed however, that he purposes returning with them for translation; if so, we may be able yet to furnish our readers with it.”
This statement indicates that there was no known opinion from Joseph Smith regardingthe Kinderhhook plates. in light of the exctiement these plates generated in the community, this is quite significant since if Smith had said anything, it would have been passed along quite rapidly.
And then there is this:In any case, the translation for which hope had been expressed in the Times and Seasons did not appear. In a letter dated April 8, 1878, Wilbur Fugate recalled: “We understood Jo Smith said [the plates] would make a book of 1200 pages but he would not agree to translate them until they were sent to the Antiquarian society at Philadelphia, France, and England.” Furthermore, a review of other entries in Joseph Smith’s history indicate that he was occupied during the following weeks with mayoral duties, Church business, the Nauvoo Legion, and four different trips to neighboring cities; there is no indication of translating activities. 15 Then on June 23, just one day before publication of the broadside that repeated the Saints’ hopeful expectation of an eventual translation, the Prophet was abducted by Missourians who tried to get him to Missouri for prosecution on charges of “treason.” He made it back to Nauvoo on June 30, but the habeas corpus proceedings took up more than two weeks of his time.
No indication of time available to Smith to translate the plates if he so desired. And then the plates obviously needed to be physically in Nauvoo in order to be translated by one who was also physically in Nauvoo.
Just when the plates were taken from Nauvoo for the second and perhaps final time is uncertain. But we know that by fall of that same year they were back in Robert Wiley’s possession, for on November 15 he wrote a letter to one J. J. Harding suggesting that he was interested in selling the plates to “the National Institute,” and that he was also interested in the “opinions of your different Entiquarian friends.” In reference to having the plates examined by “the Antiquarian society at Philadelphia, France, and England,” Wilbur Fugate went on to say: “They were sent and the answer was that there were no such Hyeroglyphics known, and if there ever had been, they had long since passed away. Then Smith began his translation.” (The reference to Joseph Smith having begun a “translation” of the plates is in error, since they were never returned to Nauvoo. The Prophet died a martyr the following year.)
(Bold mine)
In conclusion, Kimball’s article shows a) a lack of statements by Joseph Smith regarding the desire to translate the plates, b) a lack of time to translate the plates while they were physically in Joseph Smith’s proximity, and c) that the indication that “Smith began his translation’ is not backed up with any known evidence that the plates were in Nauvoo where Smith resided and was physically present.
Sorry that took a while to type up. i read that article about a year ago and neededto speed read through it to recall the details and you know how, ummmm, “good” I am at speed reading.
One part that interests me of the article is that part ofthe excitement of the kinderhhook plates was that the LDS people could use them to authenticate Joseph Smith’s claim to have translated a record from golden plates. This inteerests me because the story of the Book of Mormon does not begin in the americas but in the Near East, Jerusalem to be exact. this is also where the commencement of keeping records on brass plates in trhe Book of Mormon story. Here’s some discoveries of records being kept on plates fromthe Near East. These discoveries post date Joseph Smith’s claim to have found the plates he used. Mike R. Ash gives a written account of some ofthe discoveries made inthe near East which involved in keeping records on metal plates inlcuding one from the Dead Sea Scrolls discoveries as well as another discovery dated tothe 12th century BC which involved a letter written on a copper plate in Hebrew and buried in a stone box “carefully made”.
Metal Plates & Stone Boxes
So far as authenticating Joseph Smith’s account ofthe golden plates, this by no means “proves” it is true, in fact confirmation of the truth of it comes from the Holy Ghost, these discoveries are interesting to me in light of Joseph Smith’s claims to have received a record on golden plates. -
mharper #218;
Darren, I trust I did not annoy you with my question.
Not a bit. I do thank you for asking. Sorry again forthe long delay in response. I wanted to be precise and accurate. please ask me anything any time. Whether it be my health, family, or faith, please ask.
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mharper #218;
Darren, I trust I did not annoy you with my question.
Not a bit. I do thank you for asking. Sorry again forthe long delay in response. I wanted to be precise and accurate. please ask me anything any time. Whether it be my health, family, or faith, please ask.
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Taxes complete.
Effective tax rate of 10.42% this year.
[corrected rate] -
Taxes complete.
Effective tax rate of 10.42% this year.
[corrected rate] -
4,000 years ago? Wow, here since my seminary days I had thought they were buried in Palmayra about 1,600 years ago. Silly me.
4000 years ago. 2000 years ago. 1600 years ago. Yesterday. Since the arrival of Jesus, God speaks to us through Him. There have been no more prophets, nor have we needed any prophets, since.
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4,000 years ago? Wow, here since my seminary days I had thought they were buried in Palmayra about 1,600 years ago. Silly me.
4000 years ago. 2000 years ago. 1600 years ago. Yesterday. Since the arrival of Jesus, God speaks to us through Him. There have been no more prophets, nor have we needed any prophets, since.
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Hamous #212;
I never said that.
Ummm, yes, you did. After Squawk asked me if the Nicene Creed was decaf he said it was a belief. That’s when you said I needed a course correction and that the Nicene Creed was as Squawk said, a belief and specified that it was not doctrine. I agreed with you and pointed out that one of the points of contention I had was that many Christians point to the Nicene Creed as if it were doctrine as opposed to the doctrines themselves.
The Creed settled once and for all what Catholic doctrine was. Basically, it is a summary of that doctrine. Further, it is also a summary of all the protestant reformation churches as well as all the Orthodox churches (leaving out filioque) doctrines.
Yes, it did and yet you cannot point to me where in the Bible “same substance” is located for it is not there. If that’s doctrine, it’s doctrine new to me. Therefore, how does rejecting “same substance” render a group not Christian?
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Hamous #212;
I never said that.
Ummm, yes, you did. After Squawk asked me if the Nicene Creed was decaf he said it was a belief. That’s when you said I needed a course correction and that the Nicene Creed was as Squawk said, a belief and specified that it was not doctrine. I agreed with you and pointed out that one of the points of contention I had was that many Christians point to the Nicene Creed as if it were doctrine as opposed to the doctrines themselves.
The Creed settled once and for all what Catholic doctrine was. Basically, it is a summary of that doctrine. Further, it is also a summary of all the protestant reformation churches as well as all the Orthodox churches (leaving out filioque) doctrines.
Yes, it did and yet you cannot point to me where in the Bible “same substance” is located for it is not there. If that’s doctrine, it’s doctrine new to me. Therefore, how does rejecting “same substance” render a group not Christian?
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J the B was the last prophet.
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J the B was the last prophet.
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There have been no more prophets, nor have we needed any prophets, since.
They’ve absolutely been needed. No more than ever in fact. At one point prophets did cease to be called from God but that nessesary process has been restored with Joseph Smith being the first prophet of our modern times.
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There have been no more prophets, nor have we needed any prophets, since.
They’ve absolutely been needed. No more than ever in fact. At one point prophets did cease to be called from God but that nessesary process has been restored with Joseph Smith being the first prophet of our modern times.
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J the B was the last prophet.
What about J the R?
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J the B was the last prophet.
What about J the R?
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Sorry if this wasalready recently posted but this is like the third time I’ve seen this pop up in the news:
The Unbelievable Performance Of This 86-Year-Old Gymnast Will Blow Your Mind
The second video is the best one.
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Sorry if this wasalready recently posted but this is like the third time I’ve seen this pop up in the news:
The Unbelievable Performance Of This 86-Year-Old Gymnast Will Blow Your Mind
The second video is the best one. -
Yes, it did and yet you cannot point to me where in the Bible “same substance” is located for it is not there.
John 1:1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
Pretty clear.
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Yes, it did and yet you cannot point to me where in the Bible “same substance” is located for it is not there.
John 1:1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
Pretty clear. -
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
Wagon;
Where does it say, “same substance”? It does not. The Father is God and the Son is God for sure. Both you and I believe that. If I were to say that Jesus was with the Father in the beginning as two separate beings yet one in purpose, how does that violate or contradict John 1:1?
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“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
Wagon;
Where does it say, “same substance”? It does not. The Father is God and the Son is God for sure. Both you and I believe that. If I were to say that Jesus was with the Father in the beginning as two separate beings yet one in purpose, how does that violate or contradict John 1:1? -
And J&B will drown your sins.
Good Night, Gracie.
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And J&B will drown your sins.
Good Night, Gracie. -
It clearly says that the Word (Jesus Christ) is God. They are two of the persons in the Holy Trinity. The three persons are God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. One God – three persons.
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It clearly says that the Word (Jesus Christ) is God. They are two of the persons in the Holy Trinity. The three persons are God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. One God – three persons.
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Shamaal;
Homer Simpson has never been your gravatar. 🙂
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Shamaal;
Homer Simpson has never been your gravatar. 🙂 -
They’ve absolutely been needed. No more than ever in fact. At one point prophets did cease to be called from God but that nessesary process has been restored with Joseph Smith being the first prophet of our modern times.
Whaaa??? That’s about the most circuitous explanation I’ve ever seen. I mean, we are talking faith here, so there’s no way to scientifically prove things, but jeez. You have proof that there are latter day prophets because Joseph Smith was one?
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They’ve absolutely been needed. No more than ever in fact. At one point prophets did cease to be called from God but that nessesary process has been restored with Joseph Smith being the first prophet of our modern times.
Whaaa??? That’s about the most circuitous explanation I’ve ever seen. I mean, we are talking faith here, so there’s no way to scientifically prove things, but jeez. You have proof that there are latter day prophets because Joseph Smith was one?
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Wagon;
It seems to substantial your “clear” declaration that the Father and the Son are of the same substance you have to further cite non biblical declarations and to do so as if it were God’s revealed word to man. “Trinity” is not biblical and biblically speaking, when are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost referred to as “persons” let alone “persons of the Holy Trinity”.
How is not believing in the Holy Trinity make one not a Christian? It makes on a none traditional Christian that’s for sure; but not a Christian?
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Wagon;
It seems to substantial your “clear” declaration that the Father and the Son are of the same substance you have to further cite non biblical declarations and to do so as if it were God’s revealed word to man. “Trinity” is not biblical and biblically speaking, when are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost referred to as “persons” let alone “persons of the Holy Trinity”.
How is not believing in the Holy Trinity make one not a Christian? It makes on a none traditional Christian that’s for sure; but not a Christian? -
#222 Darren
please ask me anything any time
Be careful what liberties you grant… 🙂
Although when I think of some of the downright nosy Qs I have asked and you have answered, I can see you really mean that.
It’s much too late on a school night to research this, but I am pretty sure there were no pre-Columbian metalcraft artifacts in North America. Apologies to Pyro, but I think the North American tribes were living Da Vida Stone Age.
Hmm, who else can I run a risk of insulting tonight?
/Ducks, runs, starts shutting down for the night. As all the wimmins know, that takes about an hour.
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#222 Darren
please ask me anything any time
Be careful what liberties you grant… 🙂
Although when I think of some of the downright nosy Qs I have asked and you have answered, I can see you really mean that.
It’s much too late on a school night to research this, but I am pretty sure there were no pre-Columbian metalcraft artifacts in North America. Apologies to Pyro, but I think the North American tribes were living Da Vida Stone Age.
Hmm, who else can I run a risk of insulting tonight?
/Ducks, runs, starts shutting down for the night. As all the wimmins know, that takes about an hour. -
How is not believing in the Holy Trinity make one not a Christian?
Never said that.
It is (one of) the reason(s) that the Church does not consider Mormon baptisms valid.
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How is not believing in the Holy Trinity make one not a Christian?
Never said that.
It is (one of) the reason(s) that the Church does not consider Mormon baptisms valid. -
There’s no evidence of a pre-Columbian “reformed Egyptian” language in the Americas either.
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There’s no evidence of a pre-Columbian “reformed Egyptian” language in the Americas either.
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Hamous;
First off, you said prophets were not needed and I said they are. That’s not circuitious, that’s a direct reply to your declarative. Second off, I can point to miracles and prophecies fulfilled by Joseph Smith and I can point to miraculous events by modern-day prophets but this does not mount to anything as far as “scientific proof”. I don’t need scientific proof to know of any of God’s will and designs. I don’t even know how you made that conclusion that I was seeking scientific proof of anything regarding faith.
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Hamous;
First off, you said prophets were not needed and I said they are. That’s not circuitious, that’s a direct reply to your declarative. Second off, I can point to miracles and prophecies fulfilled by Joseph Smith and I can point to miraculous events by modern-day prophets but this does not mount to anything as far as “scientific proof”. I don’t need scientific proof to know of any of God’s will and designs. I don’t even know how you made that conclusion that I was seeking scientific proof of anything regarding faith. -
Wagon;
“Never said that.
It is (one of) the reason(s) that the Church does not consider Mormon baptisms valid.”
That was part of the extended dialogue here which you entered into. I’ll be happy to refine the question and ask how does not accepting the “Holy Trinity” make one’s baptism not Christian? The very reason the Catohlic Church invalidated the LDS baptism is because it is not considered Christian. It is not considered Christian because the LDS rejects the Holy Trinity. So, how are LDs baptisms not Christian because of the rejection of the Holy Trinity?
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Wagon;
“Never said that.
It is (one of) the reason(s) that the Church does not consider Mormon baptisms valid.”
That was part of the extended dialogue here which you entered into. I’ll be happy to refine the question and ask how does not accepting the “Holy Trinity” make one’s baptism not Christian? The very reason the Catohlic Church invalidated the LDS baptism is because it is not considered Christian. It is not considered Christian because the LDS rejects the Holy Trinity. So, how are LDs baptisms not Christian because of the rejection of the Holy Trinity? -
It is not considered Christian because the LDS rejects the Holy Trinity.
No. It is not considered valid in the eyes of the Catholic Church.
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It is not considered Christian because the LDS rejects the Holy Trinity.
No. It is not considered valid in the eyes of the Catholic Church.
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#164 – only one inquiry remains………
When oh WHEN are Yall gonna CEASE providing the dang LUBE???????????????
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#164 – only one inquiry remains………
When oh WHEN are Yall gonna CEASE providing the dang LUBE??????????????? -
I find it a little more than convenient when so-called prophets can declare something a revelation from God (polygamy) then abandon that doctrine when it becomes inconvenient (seeking statehood for Utah). Did God make a mistake with the first one? There are also many “prophesies” by Joseph Smith that never came to be.
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I find it a little more than convenient when so-called prophets can declare something a revelation from God (polygamy) then abandon that doctrine when it becomes inconvenient (seeking statehood for Utah). Did God make a mistake with the first one? There are also many “prophesies” by Joseph Smith that never came to be.
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Hamous;
There’s no evidence of a pre-Columbian “reformed Egyptian” language in the Americas either.
Where inthe world did you get off on this scientific tengent?
While your statement is strictly speaking true you need to keep up with the research on the topic.
Let me introduce you to Brian D. Stubbs who is a very well respected linguist. He has pioneered study into the American Indian dialects and has formulated a proposal that the Uto-Aztcan proto family of languages which incorporate about 30 different Native American dialects from Northern Mexico to the southwestern United States have definit patterns of Hebrew, Egyptian, and Arabic lexicon. He goes way beyond the casual coincidences you can find bwetwee any two languages. In fact, Stubbs findings go far beyond the minimal requirement linguists agree to use in order to declare a familiar connection between two or more languages. you can read an article on Stubbs or watch some You Tube or do as I did and do both.
Looking Over vs. Overlooking: Native American Languages: Let’s Void the Void
con’t…
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Hamous;
There’s no evidence of a pre-Columbian “reformed Egyptian” language in the Americas either.
Where inthe world did you get off on this scientific tengent?
While your statement is strictly speaking true you need to keep up with the research on the topic.
Let me introduce you to Brian D. Stubbs who is a very well respected linguist. He has pioneered study into the American Indian dialects and has formulated a proposal that the Uto-Aztcan proto family of languages which incorporate about 30 different Native American dialects from Northern Mexico to the southwestern United States have definit patterns of Hebrew, Egyptian, and Arabic lexicon. He goes way beyond the casual coincidences you can find bwetwee any two languages. In fact, Stubbs findings go far beyond the minimal requirement linguists agree to use in order to declare a familiar connection between two or more languages. you can read an article on Stubbs or watch some You Tube or do as I did and do both.
Looking Over vs. Overlooking: Native American Languages: Let’s Void the Void
Video part 1
Video part 2
con’t… -
In summary, while there is still not a linguistic connection accepted by the linguist community, this process takesa long time (decades even) to develpe a connection of new languages and the proto family they may have come from. Brian Stubbs, I think is on to something and his peers readily agree.
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Video part 3
Video part 4
Video part 5
In summary, while there is still not a linguistic connection accepted by the linguist community, this process takesa long time (decades even) to develpe a connection of new languages and the proto family they may have come from. Brian Stubbs, I think is on to something and his peers readily agree. -
Hamous;
I’ve long suspected you have held to common anti-LDS criticisms and at the very minimum they have brough about concern and/or doubts in you regarding Mormonism.
I find it a little more than convenient when so-called prophets can declare something a revelation from God (polygamy) then abandon that doctrine when it becomes inconvenient (seeking statehood for Utah)
Joseph Smith received the revelation to practice olygamy and openly oposed to practicing it. If I can praraphrase, it wasn’t until God said, “listen, Joseph, I told you what to do now do it”. Joseph Smith was eventally martyred and under the leadership of Brigham Young the Saints moved to a god-forsaken land known today as Utah. Under Brigham Young polygamy continued. From the beginning settlements, the Mormons sought to become part of the United States. The offer to become a state if they abandoned polygamy but that offer fell flat for that very compromise needeed to become state. This repeated itself a few more times all the while attempts to outlaw polygamy became more commonplace as well as federal pressure, including the use of the military, to round up practicioners of polygamy. The LDS leaders became gravely concered as they and members had to go into hiding and obviously the matter was taken before the Lord. You can readthe official LDS response to these events as they are official doctrines ofthe LDs Church:
Official Declaration—1 which the LDS Church denied the continuation of plygamy under its official structure and that since laws were passed to outlaw polygamy and the courts have held that such laws were constitutional that the LDS Church was to fully submit to these laws. This is cosistant with Article of Faith # 12 which is also official LDS doctrine: “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.”
Both you and I know that God’s people in ancient times practiced polygamy but what we do not know is exactly why it was stopped but true to character, no doubt there was rvelation or “inspiration” from of high to stop it. We do know much more details as to why it stopped in the LDS world but it is not so simple as the Mormons wanted statehood and so the prophet conveniniently got a revelation to stop polygamy which is such a very manner to characterize the LDS prophets by anti-Mormons. In fact, if I’m not mistaken, the Official Declaration I cited was i respose tothe original revelation god gave to cease polygamy. it was given but not ceased util the LDS Church said, (paraphrasing again), ‘lok, god has said to stop so we need to stop”. This shows direct resistence to ending polygamy; notthing convenient about it. The LDS Church even disolved all polygamous marriages. To know what that would be like just imagine a movement which would dissolve your marriage and many more of your faith. not an easy thing to do.
Did God make a mistake with the first one?
Nope. Did he with King David?
There are also many “prophesies” by Joseph Smith that never came to be.
I like that accusation because I always get a surprise response fromthe Christian when i say, neither are all the prophecies of the Bible. I say it is not us to decide the manner which prophecies are fulfilled or not but it is God who is in charge of giving a prophecy and then deciding to fulfill it or not and to the nature of how it is fulfilled.
Believe me, I’ve heard the accusations several times about Joseph Smith’s prophecies not being fulfilled. If you have any particular to bring up, I’m more than happy to give my take on it.
What I see thus far, Hamous, is that you’r seeking signs. I’d advise against that. That’ll more likely lead you astray than towards God. You will not know of any of God’s truth but by the Holy Ghost and sign seeking is contrary to opening youself up to that.
What I alternatively see (and I’m betting onthis one being your position) thus far is that you’re trying to show how one cannot “prove” sicentifically” God’s truth. If so then let me repeat how very muxch I agree with you and I still have no understanding how or why you opened up this line of discussion.
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Hamous;
I’ve long suspected you have held to common anti-LDS criticisms and at the very minimum they have brough about concern and/or doubts in you regarding Mormonism.I find it a little more than convenient when so-called prophets can declare something a revelation from God (polygamy) then abandon that doctrine when it becomes inconvenient (seeking statehood for Utah)
Joseph Smith received the revelation to practice olygamy and openly oposed to practicing it. If I can praraphrase, it wasn’t until God said, “listen, Joseph, I told you what to do now do it”. Joseph Smith was eventally martyred and under the leadership of Brigham Young the Saints moved to a god-forsaken land known today as Utah. Under Brigham Young polygamy continued. From the beginning settlements, the Mormons sought to become part of the United States. The offer to become a state if they abandoned polygamy but that offer fell flat for that very compromise needeed to become state. This repeated itself a few more times all the while attempts to outlaw polygamy became more commonplace as well as federal pressure, including the use of the military, to round up practicioners of polygamy. The LDS leaders became gravely concered as they and members had to go into hiding and obviously the matter was taken before the Lord. You can readthe official LDS response to these events as they are official doctrines ofthe LDs Church:
Official Declaration—1 which the LDS Church denied the continuation of plygamy under its official structure and that since laws were passed to outlaw polygamy and the courts have held that such laws were constitutional that the LDS Church was to fully submit to these laws. This is cosistant with Article of Faith # 12 which is also official LDS doctrine: “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.”
Both you and I know that God’s people in ancient times practiced polygamy but what we do not know is exactly why it was stopped but true to character, no doubt there was rvelation or “inspiration” from of high to stop it. We do know much more details as to why it stopped in the LDS world but it is not so simple as the Mormons wanted statehood and so the prophet conveniniently got a revelation to stop polygamy which is such a very manner to characterize the LDS prophets by anti-Mormons. In fact, if I’m not mistaken, the Official Declaration I cited was i respose tothe original revelation god gave to cease polygamy. it was given but not ceased util the LDS Church said, (paraphrasing again), ‘lok, god has said to stop so we need to stop”. This shows direct resistence to ending polygamy; notthing convenient about it. The LDS Church even disolved all polygamous marriages. To know what that would be like just imagine a movement which would dissolve your marriage and many more of your faith. not an easy thing to do.Did God make a mistake with the first one?
Nope. Did he with King David?
There are also many “prophesies” by Joseph Smith that never came to be.
I like that accusation because I always get a surprise response fromthe Christian when i say, neither are all the prophecies of the Bible. I say it is not us to decide the manner which prophecies are fulfilled or not but it is God who is in charge of giving a prophecy and then deciding to fulfill it or not and to the nature of how it is fulfilled.
Believe me, I’ve heard the accusations several times about Joseph Smith’s prophecies not being fulfilled. If you have any particular to bring up, I’m more than happy to give my take on it.
What I see thus far, Hamous, is that you’r seeking signs. I’d advise against that. That’ll more likely lead you astray than towards God. You will not know of any of God’s truth but by the Holy Ghost and sign seeking is contrary to opening youself up to that.
What I alternatively see (and I’m betting onthis one being your position) thus far is that you’re trying to show how one cannot “prove” sicentifically” God’s truth. If so then let me repeat how very muxch I agree with you and I still have no understanding how or why you opened up this line of discussion. -
Where inthe world did you get off on this scientific tengent?
In response to mharper’s correct observation that indigenous Americans were a stone-age culture. More archaeological evidence refuting the whole “golden plates” claim.
… while there is still not a linguistic connection accepted by the linguist community,
…and his peers readily agree.
Say what?
Let’s face it. Mormon doctrine and Catholic (as well as all aforementioned Christian denominations) doctrine are irreconcilable. I don’t take that personally. You shouldn’t either.
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Where inthe world did you get off on this scientific tengent?
In response to mharper’s correct observation that indigenous Americans were a stone-age culture. More archaeological evidence refuting the whole “golden plates” claim.
… while there is still not a linguistic connection accepted by the linguist community,
…and his peers readily agree.
Say what?
Let’s face it. Mormon doctrine and Catholic (as well as all aforementioned Christian denominations) doctrine are irreconcilable. I don’t take that personally. You shouldn’t either. -
What I see thus far, Hamous, is that you’r seeking signs. I’d advise against that. That’ll more likely lead you astray than towards God.
Excuse me??? With that absurd statement I think we best end this now because I’m beginning to feel much less ecumenical.
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What I see thus far, Hamous, is that you’r seeking signs. I’d advise against that. That’ll more likely lead you astray than towards God.
Excuse me??? With that absurd statement I think we best end this now because I’m beginning to feel much less ecumenical.
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Wagon #242;
No. It is not considered valid in the eyes of the Catholic Church.
So you’re saying that the Roman Catholic Church may be invalidating perfectly Christian baptisms? From the response I read and linked earlier to Hamous I’ll link again HERE, it’s pretty clear that their position is that the Mormons are way of their Christian rocker.
A certain blogger “Fr. J” claims this is the official Catholic reasoning behind invalidating the LDS baptisms (and I take it that “Fr. ” means “friar”). I certainly hope it is not their official response as certain parts of it are grossely erroneous in declaring wat the LDS believe in the faith and worship. And one thing’s for sure, one cannot read it and come away tha tthe Catholic Church views LDS baptism as Christian but just not valid.
Even so, how does rejecting the Holy Trinity invalidate a baptism when it is stil done in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
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Wagon #242;
No. It is not considered valid in the eyes of the Catholic Church.
So you’re saying that the Roman Catholic Church may be invalidating perfectly Christian baptisms? From the response I read and linked earlier to Hamous I’ll link again HERE, it’s pretty clear that their position is that the Mormons are way of their Christian rocker.
A certain blogger “Fr. J” claims this is the official Catholic reasoning behind invalidating the LDS baptisms (and I take it that “Fr. ” means “friar”). I certainly hope it is not their official response as certain parts of it are grossely erroneous in declaring wat the LDS believe in the faith and worship. And one thing’s for sure, one cannot read it and come away tha tthe Catholic Church views LDS baptism as Christian but just not valid.
Even so, how does rejecting the Holy Trinity invalidate a baptism when it is stil done in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. -
Hamous # 249;
That’s what I’m seeing but I don’t think that’s what I think you were doing.
What I alternatively see (and I’m betting onthis one being your position) thus far is that you’re trying to show how one cannot “prove” sicentifically” God’s truth. If so then let me repeat how very muxch I agree with you and I still have no understanding how or why you opened up this line of discussion.
That’s more like it.
With that absurd statement I think we best end this now because I’m beginning to feel much less ecumenical.
That’s what I said hours ago. Almost three hours now. but before siging of here are these:
In response to mharper’s correct observation that indigenous Americans were a stone-age culture.
How can that be since she posted that at 10:41 PM and you initiated the sicentific drill at 10:35 PM? Did she post her assertion that the Indians were in the stone age and so you added to that that there is no “reformed Egyptian” in Native American dialects? If so that would make sense but you mentioned scientific proof for some reason before her post. More on your second sentence in a bit. Believe me, you got that backwards. it amazes me stil that declared practicing Christians rely almost exclusively on man’s science to “prove” or at least dsicredit the LDS beliefs. I guess King David never ruled Jerusalem. Pity, I used to believe it just because the Bible said it and I know that the Bible is the word of God.
while there is still not a linguistic connection accepted by the linguist community,
…and his peers readily agree.
Say what?
Did you read or watch anything on Brian Stubbs regarding the linguistic connection between Utu-Aztecan and Near Eastern languages? Brian Stubbs has passed along his findings with linguists and their responses have been very much in the affirmative at this point in his research. Stubbs has met or surpassed what linguists expect to declare language families. His work is not yet published as he readily admits that more research is needed. But at this point I think “he’s onto something” and indeed his peers agree.
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Hamous # 249;
That’s what I’m seeing but I don’t think that’s what I think you were doing.What I alternatively see (and I’m betting onthis one being your position) thus far is that you’re trying to show how one cannot “prove” sicentifically” God’s truth. If so then let me repeat how very muxch I agree with you and I still have no understanding how or why you opened up this line of discussion.
That’s more like it.
With that absurd statement I think we best end this now because I’m beginning to feel much less ecumenical.
That’s what I said hours ago. Almost three hours now. but before siging of here are these:
In response to mharper’s correct observation that indigenous Americans were a stone-age culture.
How can that be since she posted that at 10:41 PM and you initiated the sicentific drill at 10:35 PM? Did she post her assertion that the Indians were in the stone age and so you added to that that there is no “reformed Egyptian” in Native American dialects? If so that would make sense but you mentioned scientific proof for some reason before her post. More on your second sentence in a bit. Believe me, you got that backwards. it amazes me stil that declared practicing Christians rely almost exclusively on man’s science to “prove” or at least dsicredit the LDS beliefs. I guess King David never ruled Jerusalem. Pity, I used to believe it just because the Bible said it and I know that the Bible is the word of God.
while there is still not a linguistic connection accepted by the linguist community,
…and his peers readily agree.Say what?
Did you read or watch anything on Brian Stubbs regarding the linguistic connection between Utu-Aztecan and Near Eastern languages? Brian Stubbs has passed along his findings with linguists and their responses have been very much in the affirmative at this point in his research. Stubbs has met or surpassed what linguists expect to declare language families. His work is not yet published as he readily admits that more research is needed. But at this point I think “he’s onto something” and indeed his peers agree.
-
How can that be since she posted that at 10:41 PM and you initiated the sicentific drill at 10:35 PM?
You need to look at the timestamps again:
237 mharper42 says:
April 1, 2012 at 10:41 pmIt’s much too late on a school night to research this, but I am pretty sure there were no pre-Columbian metalcraft artifacts in North America. Apologies to Pyro, but I think the North American tribes were living Da Vida Stone Age.
239 Hamous says:
April 1, 2012 at 10:45 pmThere’s no evidence of a pre-Columbian “reformed Egyptian” language in the Americas either.
Clearly I didn’t comment before she did.
Did you read or watch anything on Brian Stubbs regarding the linguistic connection between Utu-Aztecan and Near Eastern languages?
Nope. Didn’t see any reason to since you admitted that the linguist community didn’t accept his theories (before you said they did). I’ve already watched “Finding Bigfoot”.
I’ll end (for real this time) with a quote from your EWTN link:
Summing up, we can say: The Baptism of the Catholic Church and that of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints differ essentially, both for what concerns faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in whose name Baptism is conferred, and for what concerns the relationship to Christ who instituted it. As a result of all this, it is understood that the Catholic Church has to consider invalid, that is to say, cannot consider true Baptism, the rite given that name by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints.
It is equally necessary to underline that the decision of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is a response to a particular question regarding the Baptism of Mormons and obviously does not indicate a judgment on those who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Furthermore, Catholics and Mormons often find themselves working together on a range of problems regarding the common good of the entire human race. It can be hoped therefore that through further studies, dialogue and good will, there can be progress in reciprocal understanding and mutual respect.
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How can that be since she posted that at 10:41 PM and you initiated the sicentific drill at 10:35 PM?
You need to look at the timestamps again:
237 mharper42 says:
April 1, 2012 at 10:41 pm
It’s much too late on a school night to research this, but I am pretty sure there were no pre-Columbian metalcraft artifacts in North America. Apologies to Pyro, but I think the North American tribes were living Da Vida Stone Age.239 Hamous says:
April 1, 2012 at 10:45 pm
There’s no evidence of a pre-Columbian “reformed Egyptian” language in the Americas either.Clearly I didn’t comment before she did.
Did you read or watch anything on Brian Stubbs regarding the linguistic connection between Utu-Aztecan and Near Eastern languages?
Nope. Didn’t see any reason to since you admitted that the linguist community didn’t accept his theories (before you said they did). I’ve already watched “Finding Bigfoot”.
I’ll end (for real this time) with a quote from your EWTN link:Summing up, we can say: The Baptism of the Catholic Church and that of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints differ essentially, both for what concerns faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in whose name Baptism is conferred, and for what concerns the relationship to Christ who instituted it. As a result of all this, it is understood that the Catholic Church has to consider invalid, that is to say, cannot consider true Baptism, the rite given that name by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints.
It is equally necessary to underline that the decision of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is a response to a particular question regarding the Baptism of Mormons and obviously does not indicate a judgment on those who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Furthermore, Catholics and Mormons often find themselves working together on a range of problems regarding the common good of the entire human race. It can be hoped therefore that through further studies, dialogue and good will, there can be progress in reciprocal understanding and mutual respect. -
mharper & cc Hamous;
Response to George Potter’s “Ten Reasons why Mesoamerica is Not Book of Mormon Lands”
Scroll down to #6:
When the conquistadors arrived in Mesoamerica, they plundered the Native Indians of all of their precious metals, particularly gold. They took the beautifully carved and shaped gold and melted it down to ship back to their home countries. It is unknown exactly the amount of gold that they stole, or how many gold artifacts that they destroyed, but from “a lawsuit in 1529, Cortes’ was said to have been given a total of 800,000 pesos’ worth of gold” and booty just from Montezuma.26 Since the Spaniards forced the Natives to give up any gold that they had upon punishment of death if they refused, it is no wonder that there is a lack of gold items found in that area.
It has also been estimated that we have only excavated one half of one percent of the Mayan ruins in Mesoamerica. Since the Mayan ruins are much earlier and easier to find, we can assume that that the percent of excavation of Olmec sites is even less. But from the few artifacts we have found, the Olmec definitely had gold.
There are several jade ornaments with pendants in the Metropolitan Museum of Art which were made between 1,000 BC and 1 AD, that contain gold.27 Gold pendants have also been found in Panama during Olmec times.28
Human figurines have been discovered in Nayarit, Mexico which date between 300 BC and 300 AD, who are shown to be wearing both ear and nose rings that have the appearance of gold. In order to mold something into the shape of a ring, it would have to be a material malleable enough to form without breaking, which is a characteristic of gold.
Here’s from #8;
One major problem with finding iron and steel in an ancient context is that they rust and disappear with time. Therefore, finding ancient remains of this metal is extremely rare, particularly in the acidic soils of Mesoamerica. Thus far, there haven’t been any steel remains found among the Olmec, but there also hasn’t been any found among the ancient Peruvians. What has been found are iron ores that have been shaped and molded into several specific objects. Archaeologist Richard Diehl described the Olmec’s metal working as such:
“Although the Olmecs had a Stone Age technology, they did work the iron ores magnetite, hematite, and ilmenite into beads, mirrors… The most spectacular Olmec iron ore creations are large, beautifully polished, parabolic concave “mirrors” made from magnetite and ilmenite. Seven were uncovered in Complex A at La Venta. While their backs are roughly shaped, the concavity on the front is as carefully ground as many modern optical lenses, and the optical qualities of some allow them to be used to ignite fires and project “camera lucida” images on flat surfaces. The grinding was apparently done by hand with a substance similar to jewelers’ rouge. They will have suspension holes drilled at the edges and many Olmec figurines show people wearing such mirrors on their chests. Similar mirrors have been found at San Lorenzo and a few are attributed to Rio Pesquero and even distant Guerrero. Olmec lapidaries also constructed mosaic mirrors out of small polished iron ore plaques, perhaps placed on wooden backs. Tests have shown that a workshop at San Jose Mogote in the Valley of Oaxaca produced some and perhaps all of the plaques recovered at San Lorenzo.”31
John Sorenson explains that they even had a word for metal in ancient Mesoamerica when he wrote “In identifying terms that must have been in use before the descendant tongues split apart, the researchers were puzzled by the fact that a word for ‘metal’ seemed to have existed in the proto-language at about 1000 BC.”32 The Olmec did more than just dabble in metal-working. In the Olmec site of San Lorenzo, they have discovered over eight tons of worked iron ore.33 There are also numerous other examples of the Olmec working with metal to create goods.34 It is also possible that they used their metal working techniques to produce weaponry. In 1996 archaeologists unearthed a 5-ton stone monument that has been named San Lorenzo Monument 112 from the Olmec site in San Lorenzo. Carved onto this stone is a man “who carries a curved knife in his belt.”35 What is interesting about this image is the curved knife. In order to maintain integrity, the blade had to have been made out of something that would not break easily as obsidian would if curved. Perhaps it was made out of a type of iron ore that they were using to make other goods with.
Footnotes 33-35 are from a publication by Cambridge University and footnote 36 is fromthe University of California.
-
mharper & cc Hamous;
Response to George Potter’s “Ten Reasons why Mesoamerica is Not Book of Mormon Lands”
Scroll down to #6:When the conquistadors arrived in Mesoamerica, they plundered the Native Indians of all of their precious metals, particularly gold. They took the beautifully carved and shaped gold and melted it down to ship back to their home countries. It is unknown exactly the amount of gold that they stole, or how many gold artifacts that they destroyed, but from “a lawsuit in 1529, Cortes’ was said to have been given a total of 800,000 pesos’ worth of gold” and booty just from Montezuma.26 Since the Spaniards forced the Natives to give up any gold that they had upon punishment of death if they refused, it is no wonder that there is a lack of gold items found in that area.
It has also been estimated that we have only excavated one half of one percent of the Mayan ruins in Mesoamerica. Since the Mayan ruins are much earlier and easier to find, we can assume that that the percent of excavation of Olmec sites is even less. But from the few artifacts we have found, the Olmec definitely had gold.
There are several jade ornaments with pendants in the Metropolitan Museum of Art which were made between 1,000 BC and 1 AD, that contain gold.27 Gold pendants have also been found in Panama during Olmec times.28
Human figurines have been discovered in Nayarit, Mexico which date between 300 BC and 300 AD, who are shown to be wearing both ear and nose rings that have the appearance of gold. In order to mold something into the shape of a ring, it would have to be a material malleable enough to form without breaking, which is a characteristic of gold.Here’s from #8;
One major problem with finding iron and steel in an ancient context is that they rust and disappear with time. Therefore, finding ancient remains of this metal is extremely rare, particularly in the acidic soils of Mesoamerica. Thus far, there haven’t been any steel remains found among the Olmec, but there also hasn’t been any found among the ancient Peruvians. What has been found are iron ores that have been shaped and molded into several specific objects. Archaeologist Richard Diehl described the Olmec’s metal working as such:
“Although the Olmecs had a Stone Age technology, they did work the iron ores magnetite, hematite, and ilmenite into beads, mirrors… The most spectacular Olmec iron ore creations are large, beautifully polished, parabolic concave “mirrors” made from magnetite and ilmenite. Seven were uncovered in Complex A at La Venta. While their backs are roughly shaped, the concavity on the front is as carefully ground as many modern optical lenses, and the optical qualities of some allow them to be used to ignite fires and project “camera lucida” images on flat surfaces. The grinding was apparently done by hand with a substance similar to jewelers’ rouge. They will have suspension holes drilled at the edges and many Olmec figurines show people wearing such mirrors on their chests. Similar mirrors have been found at San Lorenzo and a few are attributed to Rio Pesquero and even distant Guerrero. Olmec lapidaries also constructed mosaic mirrors out of small polished iron ore plaques, perhaps placed on wooden backs. Tests have shown that a workshop at San Jose Mogote in the Valley of Oaxaca produced some and perhaps all of the plaques recovered at San Lorenzo.”31
John Sorenson explains that they even had a word for metal in ancient Mesoamerica when he wrote “In identifying terms that must have been in use before the descendant tongues split apart, the researchers were puzzled by the fact that a word for ‘metal’ seemed to have existed in the proto-language at about 1000 BC.”32 The Olmec did more than just dabble in metal-working. In the Olmec site of San Lorenzo, they have discovered over eight tons of worked iron ore.33 There are also numerous other examples of the Olmec working with metal to create goods.34 It is also possible that they used their metal working techniques to produce weaponry. In 1996 archaeologists unearthed a 5-ton stone monument that has been named San Lorenzo Monument 112 from the Olmec site in San Lorenzo. Carved onto this stone is a man “who carries a curved knife in his belt.”35 What is interesting about this image is the curved knife. In order to maintain integrity, the blade had to have been made out of something that would not break easily as obsidian would if curved. Perhaps it was made out of a type of iron ore that they were using to make other goods with.Footnotes 33-35 are from a publication by Cambridge University and footnote 36 is fromthe University of California.
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Hamous;
Nope. Didn’t see any reason to since you admitted that the linguist community didn’t accept his theories (before you said they did). I’ve already watched “Finding Bigfoot”.
I never said they didn’t accept his theories. The fact is that it is is theories are being accepted and thus “he’s on to something”. What has not happened so far is make a formal conclusion that Near Eastern languages do have a significant amount of lexicon and linguistic patterns in certain native American dialects. It is all in the theoretic stage but there’s solid evidence that points to ths conclusion and it is these theories which linguists agree look very promesing.
-
Hamous;
Nope. Didn’t see any reason to since you admitted that the linguist community didn’t accept his theories (before you said they did). I’ve already watched “Finding Bigfoot”.
I never said they didn’t accept his theories. The fact is that it is is theories are being accepted and thus “he’s on to something”. What has not happened so far is make a formal conclusion that Near Eastern languages do have a significant amount of lexicon and linguistic patterns in certain native American dialects. It is all in the theoretic stage but there’s solid evidence that points to ths conclusion and it is these theories which linguists agree look very promesing.
-
Hamous;
That’s a nice ending. Nighty night.
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Hamous;
That’s a nice ending. Nighty night. -
I’ve already watched “Finding Bigfoot”.
You Medved fan.
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I’ve already watched “Finding Bigfoot”.
You Medved fan.
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I must conclude on the ever essential Zimmerman update:
TAMPA – One of George Zimmerman’s neighbors is speaking out, saying looks can be deceiving.
Despite booking video from the Sanford Police Department that many say shows George Zimmerman largely unscathed from his encounter with Trayvon Martin, the neighbor said he saw Zimmerman with obvious injuries.
The neighbor is talking for the first time about what he saw on George Zimmerman’s face less than 24-hours after Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin.
“I saw George. He was banged up. His head had two big bandages, that weren’t flat, had a bump on them,” the neighbor, who did not want to be identified, said.
He described where the injuries were.
“I seen him have a big bandage on his nose and his nose swollen. On the side, where his eyes were at, it was swollen,” he said.
-
I must conclude on the ever essential Zimmerman update:
TAMPA – One of George Zimmerman’s neighbors is speaking out, saying looks can be deceiving.
Despite booking video from the Sanford Police Department that many say shows George Zimmerman largely unscathed from his encounter with Trayvon Martin, the neighbor said he saw Zimmerman with obvious injuries.
The neighbor is talking for the first time about what he saw on George Zimmerman’s face less than 24-hours after Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin.
“I saw George. He was banged up. His head had two big bandages, that weren’t flat, had a bump on them,” the neighbor, who did not want to be identified, said.
He described where the injuries were.
“I seen him have a big bandage on his nose and his nose swollen. On the side, where his eyes were at, it was swollen,” he said.
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