Monday Cradle Of Democracy Open Comments

Recent developments in the Cradle Of Democracy continue to disturb. We find that the Germans are finally growing weary of throwing good money after bad at a bunch of ingrates who don’t seem to understand that something that can’t go on forever won’t.
Greeks have taken to the streets in protest, trying to get their slice of the pie before it evaporates.

Just so we realize the Germans aren’t all a bunch of heartless machines, there are some who have a morsel of sympathy. But not too much.


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  1. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    G’Morning All

    FIRST

    Man in tee shirt vs riot gear with gun. Guess who will win.

  2. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    G’Morning All
    FIRST
    Man in tee shirt vs riot gear with gun. Guess who will win.

  3. Hamous Avatar

    I can’t believe I am actually gonna say it but I agree with the O admin on this issue:

    HEADLINE:High court dilemma: Can lie about military medal be a crime?
    WASHINGTON (AP) – Xavier Alvarez was in good company when he stood up at a public meeting and called himself a wounded war veteran who had received the top military award, the Medal of Honor.
    Alvarez was lying about his medal, his wounds and his military service, but he wasn’t the first man to invent war exploits.
    He was, however, one of the first people prosecuted under a 2006 federal law aimed at curbing false claims of military valor.
    Concerns that the law improperly limits speech and turns people into criminals for things they say, rather than do, are at the heart of the Supreme Court’s review of his case and the Stolen Valor Act.
    Veterans groups have come to the aid of the Obama administration, which calls the law a narrowly crafted effort to protect the system of military awards that was established during the Revolutionary War by Gen. George Washington. The high court will hear the case Wednesday, which is Washington’s 280th birthday.

    I neglected to enter the armed services in my yute, one of the bigger mistakes of my life, however I stand in support of the Veterans and in this case, the O admin, the Stolen Valor Act must be enforced. In this day of computerized records, confirming the validity or exposing the fraudulent acts of those claiming military valor is easy; anyone who wrongly claims decoration needs to be prosecuted. Much to the surprise of no one, the 9th circus in San Fran Freako struck down the law, while the court out of Denver upheld it; now it is before the SCOTUS where, I think, it will be upheld and the terd-nozzle in question, Xavier Alvarez, will be punished for his fraud.

    My hat is off and a heart felt thanks go out to all those who honorably served.

  4. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    I can’t believe I am actually gonna say it but I agree with the O admin on this issue:

    HEADLINE:High court dilemma: Can lie about military medal be a crime?
    WASHINGTON (AP) – Xavier Alvarez was in good company when he stood up at a public meeting and called himself a wounded war veteran who had received the top military award, the Medal of Honor.
    Alvarez was lying about his medal, his wounds and his military service, but he wasn’t the first man to invent war exploits.
    He was, however, one of the first people prosecuted under a 2006 federal law aimed at curbing false claims of military valor.
    Concerns that the law improperly limits speech and turns people into criminals for things they say, rather than do, are at the heart of the Supreme Court’s review of his case and the Stolen Valor Act.
    Veterans groups have come to the aid of the Obama administration, which calls the law a narrowly crafted effort to protect the system of military awards that was established during the Revolutionary War by Gen. George Washington. The high court will hear the case Wednesday, which is Washington’s 280th birthday.

    I neglected to enter the armed services in my yute, one of the bigger mistakes of my life, however I stand in support of the Veterans and in this case, the O admin, the Stolen Valor Act must be enforced. In this day of computerized records, confirming the validity or exposing the fraudulent acts of those claiming military valor is easy; anyone who wrongly claims decoration needs to be prosecuted. Much to the surprise of no one, the 9th circus in San Fran Freako struck down the law, while the court out of Denver upheld it; now it is before the SCOTUS where, I think, it will be upheld and the terd-nozzle in question, Xavier Alvarez, will be punished for his fraud.
    My hat is off and a heart felt thanks go out to all those who honorably served.

  5. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    BTW, take a look at the street. When we get to the same place Greece is, the streets will look like that and the stores will look like this.

  6. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    BTW, take a look at the street. When we get to the same place Greece is, the streets will look like that and the stores will look like this.

  7. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    The Econabomber sez the Greeks just need to spend even more of Germany’s money to make things all better.

  8. Hamous Avatar

    The Econabomber sez the Greeks just need to spend even more of Germany’s money to make things all better.

  9. Katfish Avatar

    To paraphrase PJ O’Rourke, giving more money to the Greeks is like giving whiskey & car keys to a group of 17-year old boys.

  10. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    To paraphrase PJ O’Rourke, giving more money to the Greeks is like giving whiskey & car keys to a group of 17-year old boys.

  11. Hamous Avatar

    #4 Hamous: I do not have an account with the Worn-Out-Old-Grey-Prostitute, nor will I get one. Are you referring to PaulieK as the econobomber?
    The scene portrayed on the O/C pic is gonna get replayed in Italy, Spain, Portugal, perhaps Ireland, then France, then BE-NE-LUX, by that time the rest of Yerp will simply be in complete financial meltdown as the financial house of cards will be a tumblin’ down. Time frame for above is prolly maxed at 2 -3 years.

  12. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #4 Hamous: I do not have an account with the Worn-Out-Old-Grey-Prostitute, nor will I get one. Are you referring to PaulieK as the econobomber?
    The scene portrayed on the O/C pic is gonna get replayed in Italy, Spain, Portugal, perhaps Ireland, then France, then BE-NE-LUX, by that time the rest of Yerp will simply be in complete financial meltdown as the financial house of cards will be a tumblin’ down. Time frame for above is prolly maxed at 2 -3 years.

  13. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    Are you referring to PaulieK as the econobomber?

    Yes. I don’t have an account either. Usually you can get to NYT editorials once without registering if you go in from here.

  14. Hamous Avatar

    Are you referring to PaulieK as the econobomber?

    Yes. I don’t have an account either. Usually you can get to NYT editorials once without registering if you go in from here.

  15. Hamous Avatar

    This is another relevant article to the Greek Thing

    HEADLINE:Decision day for second Greek bailout despite financing gaps
    BRUSSELS (Reuters) – Euro zone finance ministers are expected to approve a second bailout for Greece on Monday to try to draw a line under months of uncertainty that has shaken the currency bloc, although work remains to be done to make the numbers add up.
    Diplomats and economists say they do not expect the package to resolve Greece’s economic problems.

    Ifn it ain’t a gonna solve the problem, then why do it??

  16. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    This is another relevant article to the Greek Thing

    HEADLINE:Decision day for second Greek bailout despite financing gaps
    BRUSSELS (Reuters) – Euro zone finance ministers are expected to approve a second bailout for Greece on Monday to try to draw a line under months of uncertainty that has shaken the currency bloc, although work remains to be done to make the numbers add up.
    Diplomats and economists say they do not expect the package to resolve Greece’s economic problems.

    Ifn it ain’t a gonna solve the problem, then why do it??

  17. gtotracker Avatar
    gtotracker

    Making the rounds om the internet is an alleged logo for Obama’s Truth Team. It looks a bit like a Nazi flag. That has to be fake but I can’t find proof one way or another. Anyone else seen it?

  18. gtotracker Avatar
    gtotracker

    Making the rounds om the internet is an alleged logo for Obama’s Truth Team. It looks a bit like a Nazi flag. That has to be fake but I can’t find proof one way or another. Anyone else seen it?

  19. Katfish Avatar

    Ifn it ain’t a gonna solve the problem, then why do it??

    Because We Must Do Something.

  20. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    Ifn it ain’t a gonna solve the problem, then why do it??

    Because We Must Do Something.

  21. Hamous Avatar

    #8 Hamous: I just read his article and I am appalled; I am actually stoopider for having read it. Why does anyone listen to anything that guy says?? He is wrong on every count. He claims that the austerity measures are making things worse, yet he fails to recognize that they have not actually been implemented, nor have the necessary accompanying tax cuts put more dollars in the pockets of the individuals. When individuals have more money in the pocket, they will spend more and when they spend more, companies will hire more to meet the demand. It really is not very complicated.

  22. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #8 Hamous: I just read his article and I am appalled; I am actually stoopider for having read it. Why does anyone listen to anything that guy says?? He is wrong on every count. He claims that the austerity measures are making things worse, yet he fails to recognize that they have not actually been implemented, nor have the necessary accompanying tax cuts put more dollars in the pockets of the individuals. When individuals have more money in the pocket, they will spend more and when they spend more, companies will hire more to meet the demand. It really is not very complicated.

  23. Hamous Avatar

    #10 GTO: I havn’t seen it; linkie please.

  24. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #10 GTO: I havn’t seen it; linkie please.

  25. Tedtam Avatar

    The closest I’ve found for TBO’s “truth squads” is here. I see no logo. Enter at your own risk. I am not liable for any stroke, heart attack, hyperventilation, or any other health problem that arises from your entry into this website.

  26. Tedtam Avatar

    The closest I’ve found for TBO’s “truth squads” is here. I see no logo. Enter at your own risk. I am not liable for any stroke, heart attack, hyperventilation, or any other health problem that arises from your entry into this website.

  27. Hamous Avatar

    #14 TT: I lasted about 30 seconds before I bailed out. I can read lies in the Houston Comical, I don’t need to go to the fountain.

  28. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #14 TT: I lasted about 30 seconds before I bailed out. I can read lies in the Houston Comical, I don’t need to go to the fountain.

  29. Tedtam Avatar

    I saw a t-shirt yesterday:
    C:/DOS
    C:/DOS/RUN
    RUN/DOS/RUN

    The guy said he had another one that said:
    C:/WINDOWS
    C:/WINDOWS/RUN
    C:/WINDOWS/CRASH

    Am I too much of a geek that I found his shirt amusing?

  30. Tedtam Avatar

    I saw a t-shirt yesterday:
    C:/DOS
    C:/DOS/RUN
    RUN/DOS/RUN
    The guy said he had another one that said:
    C:/WINDOWS
    C:/WINDOWS/RUN
    C:/WINDOWS/CRASH
    Am I too much of a geek that I found his shirt amusing?

  31. gtotracker Avatar
    gtotracker

    A google search of ‘Obama truth squad logo’ will bring up a couple of links. I think they are blogs falling for a hoax.

  32. gtotracker Avatar
    gtotracker

    A google search of ‘Obama truth squad logo’ will bring up a couple of links. I think they are blogs falling for a hoax.

  33. Tedtam Avatar

    Speaking of geeky, start ’em early, I say.

    As far as the link to TBO’s “truth goons,” that is darn scary. I heard rumors of Nixon’s imperial-minded uniform designs, but I think that TBO would actually go through with it. He’s arrogant enough to do it.

  34. Tedtam Avatar

    Speaking of geeky, start ’em early, I say.
    As far as the link to TBO’s “truth goons,” that is darn scary. I heard rumors of Nixon’s imperial-minded uniform designs, but I think that TBO would actually go through with it. He’s arrogant enough to do it.

  35. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    Why, you ask, are these people still meeting over the hopeless case of the Greek financial situation? Have you seen what they eat and what they drink? – Nothing but the finest. Add a few other entertainment activities for the evening, and you wonder why they don’t meet all the time. The real reason the meetings go on is that there are a few bones that haven’t been picked clean yet. Once they have been, and all the marrow has been drawn, then the meetings will cease.

  36. El Gordo Avatar

    Why, you ask, are these people still meeting over the hopeless case of the Greek financial situation? Have you seen what they eat and what they drink? – Nothing but the finest. Add a few other entertainment activities for the evening, and you wonder why they don’t meet all the time. The real reason the meetings go on is that there are a few bones that haven’t been picked clean yet. Once they have been, and all the marrow has been drawn, then the meetings will cease.

  37. Tedtam Avatar

    And I am Barf Kitty free. I reheated her hot water bottle and she is all tucked into her blanket cat cave. I don’t plan on seeing her all day.

  38. Tedtam Avatar

    And I am Barf Kitty free. I reheated her hot water bottle and she is all tucked into her blanket cat cave. I don’t plan on seeing her all day.

  39. Hamous Avatar

    Am I banned from further posts? 2 seem to be stuck in the spit bucket.

  40. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    Am I banned from further posts? 2 seem to be stuck in the spit bucket.

  41. Hamous Avatar

    Go to the link on #16 M42. Scroll down past the nazi emblems and click on the Don Rickles picture- real funny.

  42. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    Go to the link on #16 M42. Scroll down past the nazi emblems and click on the Don Rickles picture- real funny.

  43. Hamous Avatar

    The Wookie is at it again:

    HEADLINE: Michelle’s ski trip marks 16 Obama vacations

    What more needs to be said? 16 wissin vacations at taxpayer expense in just over 3 years???? I haven’t had 16 vacations in the last 3 decades.

  44. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    The Wookie is at it again:

    HEADLINE: Michelle’s ski trip marks 16 Obama vacations

    What more needs to be said? 16 wissin vacations at taxpayer expense in just over 3 years???? I haven’t had 16 vacations in the last 3 decades.

  45. Adee Avatar
    Adee

    Good morning Hamsters. Bracing 48 at 6, partly cloudy that gave way to sunny and high clouds, and a really beautiful day to enjoy.

    Talked to a good friend in Austin last night and asked about rainfall there. Her place off 290 between Austin and Dripping Springs got over 2″ Friday and Saturday added to bountiful rains earlier. But she says the heavy rains have not fallen on the lakes in the area, for the most part blessing the southern and eastern sides of town and environs. So apparently Lake Travis is still rather barren.

    Can understand the Greek interest in having elections in April so those newly elected can disavow any agreements made by their predecessors and throw everything back into complete chaos as the country dangles over the cliff a little farther. 🙁

  46. Adee Avatar
    Adee

    Good morning Hamsters. Bracing 48 at 6, partly cloudy that gave way to sunny and high clouds, and a really beautiful day to enjoy.
    Talked to a good friend in Austin last night and asked about rainfall there. Her place off 290 between Austin and Dripping Springs got over 2″ Friday and Saturday added to bountiful rains earlier. But she says the heavy rains have not fallen on the lakes in the area, for the most part blessing the southern and eastern sides of town and environs. So apparently Lake Travis is still rather barren.
    Can understand the Greek interest in having elections in April so those newly elected can disavow any agreements made by their predecessors and throw everything back into complete chaos as the country dangles over the cliff a little farther. 🙁

  47. Hamous Avatar

    #25 Adee: Unfortunately, I think that Greece is like a patient on the table; all the alarms are going off as the heart has stopped and the doctors are pushing meds ($$) and doing CPR (cajoling everyone to accept that they have to have a “haircut”) the brainwaves are rapidly fading and there won’t be anything left for Greece as far as the Euro goes. They are gonna default on all of their previous debts and committments. No more public pensions at all, no more overly generous salaries for public employees, the number of public employees is going to plummet, and the healthcare system is going to have to be rebuilt from ashes. The old Greece must die and the only thing that has any chance of working there now, after the old Greece dies, is pure capitalism. The process is going to be even more painful than it is now.
    We have a small chance to avoid that problem but drastic and painful changes need to be made SOON or we will be Greece on a much bigger scale.

  48. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #25 Adee: Unfortunately, I think that Greece is like a patient on the table; all the alarms are going off as the heart has stopped and the doctors are pushing meds ($$) and doing CPR (cajoling everyone to accept that they have to have a “haircut”) the brainwaves are rapidly fading and there won’t be anything left for Greece as far as the Euro goes. They are gonna default on all of their previous debts and committments. No more public pensions at all, no more overly generous salaries for public employees, the number of public employees is going to plummet, and the healthcare system is going to have to be rebuilt from ashes. The old Greece must die and the only thing that has any chance of working there now, after the old Greece dies, is pure capitalism. The process is going to be even more painful than it is now.
    We have a small chance to avoid that problem but drastic and painful changes need to be made SOON or we will be Greece on a much bigger scale.

  49. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    Regarding the Truth Squad icon, I just posted what I found, goats or someone said it was prolly a hoax. I found a comment that said it came from:

    http://iowntheworld.com/blog/

    which is a zany site but I didn’t see that icon on it. On reflection, I think even Obammy & his minions could sense a problem with the 4-Ts being reminiscent of the swastika…

  50. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    Regarding the Truth Squad icon, I just posted what I found, goats or someone said it was prolly a hoax. I found a comment that said it came from:
    http://iowntheworld.com/blog/
    which is a zany site but I didn’t see that icon on it. On reflection, I think even Obammy & his minions could sense a problem with the 4-Ts being reminiscent of the swastika…

  51. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    Commentary, usually a reputable publication, pushing the same old appalling lies about WWII pope.

  52. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    Commentary, usually a reputable publication, pushing the same old appalling lies about WWII pope.

  53. Katfish Avatar

    Am I banned from further posts? 2 seem to be stuck in the spit bucket.

    Nothing there…

  54. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    Am I banned from further posts? 2 seem to be stuck in the spit bucket.

    Nothing there…

  55. Tedtam Avatar

    #28 Shannon

    If you hate the Church, there is no amount of truth that will break through the wall of denial.

    I keep wondering how people can continue to spout such untruths and idiocy – like “papal infallibility” means the Pope can say anything, never be questioned, and is never wrong – until I realize that they are ignorant out of choice.

  56. Tedtam Avatar

    #28 Shannon
    If you hate the Church, there is no amount of truth that will break through the wall of denial.
    I keep wondering how people can continue to spout such untruths and idiocy – like “papal infallibility” means the Pope can say anything, never be questioned, and is never wrong – until I realize that they are ignorant out of choice.

  57. fat albert Avatar
    fat albert

    #8 Hamous:

    To believe Mr Krugman, you must also be able to believe in perpetual motion. The government spends money, that it doesn’t have to hire people who pay taxes to fund the government which then spends even more money to pay even more people who pay taxes to fund the government which then spends even more money to hire even more people . . . . and the circle never ends.

    I’ve seen bricks with more common sense.

  58. fat albert Avatar
    fat albert

    #8 Hamous:
    To believe Mr Krugman, you must also be able to believe in perpetual motion. The government spends money, that it doesn’t have to hire people who pay taxes to fund the government which then spends even more money to pay even more people who pay taxes to fund the government which then spends even more money to hire even more people . . . . and the circle never ends.
    I’ve seen bricks with more common sense.

  59. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    That iowntheworld blog has a viciously funny picture labeled Michelle Doing Well on the Slopes.

  60. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    That iowntheworld blog has a viciously funny picture labeled Michelle Doing Well on the Slopes.

  61. Tedtam Avatar

    #32 Mharper
    From your link:

    BFH – Excuse me, I wouldn’t want to tell you your business, but don’t you have the sack on the wrong end?

    /grins

  62. Tedtam Avatar

    #32 Mharper
    From your link:

    BFH – Excuse me, I wouldn’t want to tell you your business, but don’t you have the sack on the wrong end?

    /grins

  63. Katfish Avatar

    #32 mh43
    She looks better in a potato sack than she usually does wearing the drapes.

  64. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    #32 mh43
    She looks better in a potato sack than she usually does wearing the drapes.

  65. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    I….. however I stand in support of the Veterans and in this case, the O admin, the Stolen Valor Act must be enforced. In this day of computerized records, confirming the validity or exposing the fraudulent acts of those claiming military valor is easy; anyone who wrongly claims decoration needs to be prosecuted. Much to the surprise of no one, the 9th circus in San Fran Freako struck down the law, while the court out of Denver upheld it; now it is before the SCOTUS where, I think, it will be upheld and the terd-nozzle in question, Xavier Alvarez, will be punished for his fraud.

    My hat is off and a heart felt thanks go out to all those who honorably served.

    The Stolen Valor Act stands as an object lesson of a law that ostensibly has good intentions, but results either in unintended or intended consequences, depending on your frame of reference and the ninformation one has regarding the issues behind it. Like the intent behind Gun Control, it results in making criminals of law abiding citizens while doing nothing to address the problem or its impact on society (which in this case is minimal), and achieving a goal not readily discernable through the claims its defenders and advocates make or have made.

    I first heard about the Stolen Valor Act back in 2003 when it was first being crafted. It was at an after gun show dinner with freinds. At the time I was deeply involved in collecting militaria, and financing that hobby by selling old military junk at gun and militaria shows. My dinner freinds were the Area Vice President of the American Society for Military Insignia Collectors (ASMIC), and a Board member of the Orders and Medals Society of America (OMSA). They were discussing the upcoming Congressional Testimony that the OMSA board member was scheduled to give in the coming weeks to the Committee writing the bill.

    The concerns at the time was the impact that the bill would have to the militaria collecting community, as well as the impact it would have on the families of medal recipients after the veteran died. It was also noted that the legislation fit in with a memo from Handgun Control Incorporated that became public in 1994 and had been a subject of much discussion in both the Reenacting and Collecting community for the previous 10 years. The relevant portions are:

    30. Banning of military reenactments The questionable “historical” value of these events has escaped public scrutiny for too long. Many of these so called historical events are mere excuses for gun nuts to blast the countryside with automatic weapons. What is to keep them from loading live bullets and having those stray bullets kill innocent children? What lives in the future will be lost due to this paramilitary training going on right under our noses? We propose the prohibition of Survivalist/paramilitary, World War I and World War II and Civil War Re-enactments on federal land, and hope to encourage the states to prohibit them from state and county lands as well.

    THE NEXT FIFTEEN YEARS: With all that is going on, who knows what is possible in the next few years? With murders in the streets, and the public fed up, and the once mighty thugs of the Gun Lobby whimpering in impotence we have an opportunity to change the face of America for the better! Previously we thought that it would take at least a century to eliminate dangerous weapons and guns from the public hands, but now with allies in the White House and Congress, we can accelerate this trend, and make the barbaric NRA extinct!!!

    Here are some ideas to consider for the long term:

    Banning of military acoutrements Essential to the Neanderthal gun culture are the typical military clothing, camouflage, pouches, and gear, boots and other combat gear. They euphemistically refer to this as militaria . Elimination of the future sale of these items will cripple the culture of violence well into the 21 st century.

    The Stolen Valor Act does not merely contain punishments for persons who make claims of military service that are not true. It has made it illegal to own certain military medals and awards and the Certificates that come with them. In the late 1990’s, I had bought as an investment item for my son an unissued Navy Medal of Honor and gave it to him for his birthday. In 2006 I became a criminal because it was in my posession. I was forced to sell it or throw it away. I sold it at a loss to a gentleman who was taking it, and many others, overseas to sell to collectors who would no be criminals for having them in thier closets. While that represents a monetary loss for me, the impact to families that have Medals of Honor and other Valor Medals as a result of the deth of their Vetran relatives is even moreso. They cannot retain the medal without becoming criminals, nor can they sell it to a collector who will care for it. Their only recourse is to give them back to the government, who will warehouse them.

    As to the imposters themselves and the law’s intent there. They represent no threat to either Society or the True Heroes whose glory they attempt to cover themselves with. They are shockingly easy to expose, even without the Internet or computer records (none of them ever claim to be a clerk in Da Nang—they all cliam to be Special Forces of some type), and are universally reviled when that is done. The First Amendment defense is a valid one. The Government might as well make it against the law for one to portray a Cowboy as well as make it illegal to portray a Veteran. The Liberty issue involved is the same. No punishment is required. Their punishment is a life empty of true accomplishment made worse by the shame of public exposure.

    The only real effect on society is when someone attempts to collect Veterans Benefits by posing as a Veteran. It is already illegal to claim benefits in such a manner. The claim that the Stolen Valor Act has been passed in order to protect the rights and honor of Veterans is as valid as the argument that Gun Control is needed to prevent robbery and homicide, and was made by the same people at the same time.

    SCOTUS wil not strike this portion of the Stoeln Valor Act down. It is unconstitutional on its face and nnever should have been passed. The sad result of this court case will be that the portions of the Stolen Valor Act that make it illegal to publicy portray a Veteran who earned those awards will be struck down, while the prohibitions to own them for the purposes of collection, preservation, and education will remain. And the people who wrote that HGCI memo in 1994 will have gotten what they wanted. They won’t care that its not all they wanted. They will consider it a step in the right direction.

  66. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    I….. however I stand in support of the Veterans and in this case, the O admin, the Stolen Valor Act must be enforced. In this day of computerized records, confirming the validity or exposing the fraudulent acts of those claiming military valor is easy; anyone who wrongly claims decoration needs to be prosecuted. Much to the surprise of no one, the 9th circus in San Fran Freako struck down the law, while the court out of Denver upheld it; now it is before the SCOTUS where, I think, it will be upheld and the terd-nozzle in question, Xavier Alvarez, will be punished for his fraud.
    My hat is off and a heart felt thanks go out to all those who honorably served.

    The Stolen Valor Act stands as an object lesson of a law that ostensibly has good intentions, but results either in unintended or intended consequences, depending on your frame of reference and the ninformation one has regarding the issues behind it. Like the intent behind Gun Control, it results in making criminals of law abiding citizens while doing nothing to address the problem or its impact on society (which in this case is minimal), and achieving a goal not readily discernable through the claims its defenders and advocates make or have made.
    I first heard about the Stolen Valor Act back in 2003 when it was first being crafted. It was at an after gun show dinner with freinds. At the time I was deeply involved in collecting militaria, and financing that hobby by selling old military junk at gun and militaria shows. My dinner freinds were the Area Vice President of the American Society for Military Insignia Collectors (ASMIC), and a Board member of the Orders and Medals Society of America (OMSA). They were discussing the upcoming Congressional Testimony that the OMSA board member was scheduled to give in the coming weeks to the Committee writing the bill.
    The concerns at the time was the impact that the bill would have to the militaria collecting community, as well as the impact it would have on the families of medal recipients after the veteran died. It was also noted that the legislation fit in with a memo from Handgun Control Incorporated that became public in 1994 and had been a subject of much discussion in both the Reenacting and Collecting community for the previous 10 years. The relevant portions are:

    30. Banning of military reenactments The questionable “historical” value of these events has escaped public scrutiny for too long. Many of these so called historical events are mere excuses for gun nuts to blast the countryside with automatic weapons. What is to keep them from loading live bullets and having those stray bullets kill innocent children? What lives in the future will be lost due to this paramilitary training going on right under our noses? We propose the prohibition of Survivalist/paramilitary, World War I and World War II and Civil War Re-enactments on federal land, and hope to encourage the states to prohibit them from state and county lands as well.

    THE NEXT FIFTEEN YEARS: With all that is going on, who knows what is possible in the next few years? With murders in the streets, and the public fed up, and the once mighty thugs of the Gun Lobby whimpering in impotence we have an opportunity to change the face of America for the better! Previously we thought that it would take at least a century to eliminate dangerous weapons and guns from the public hands, but now with allies in the White House and Congress, we can accelerate this trend, and make the barbaric NRA extinct!!!
    Here are some ideas to consider for the long term:
    Banning of military acoutrements Essential to the Neanderthal gun culture are the typical military clothing, camouflage, pouches, and gear, boots and other combat gear. They euphemistically refer to this as militaria . Elimination of the future sale of these items will cripple the culture of violence well into the 21 st century.

    The Stolen Valor Act does not merely contain punishments for persons who make claims of military service that are not true. It has made it illegal to own certain military medals and awards and the Certificates that come with them. In the late 1990’s, I had bought as an investment item for my son an unissued Navy Medal of Honor and gave it to him for his birthday. In 2006 I became a criminal because it was in my posession. I was forced to sell it or throw it away. I sold it at a loss to a gentleman who was taking it, and many others, overseas to sell to collectors who would no be criminals for having them in thier closets. While that represents a monetary loss for me, the impact to families that have Medals of Honor and other Valor Medals as a result of the deth of their Vetran relatives is even moreso. They cannot retain the medal without becoming criminals, nor can they sell it to a collector who will care for it. Their only recourse is to give them back to the government, who will warehouse them.
    As to the imposters themselves and the law’s intent there. They represent no threat to either Society or the True Heroes whose glory they attempt to cover themselves with. They are shockingly easy to expose, even without the Internet or computer records (none of them ever claim to be a clerk in Da Nang—they all cliam to be Special Forces of some type), and are universally reviled when that is done. The First Amendment defense is a valid one. The Government might as well make it against the law for one to portray a Cowboy as well as make it illegal to portray a Veteran. The Liberty issue involved is the same. No punishment is required. Their punishment is a life empty of true accomplishment made worse by the shame of public exposure.
    The only real effect on society is when someone attempts to collect Veterans Benefits by posing as a Veteran. It is already illegal to claim benefits in such a manner. The claim that the Stolen Valor Act has been passed in order to protect the rights and honor of Veterans is as valid as the argument that Gun Control is needed to prevent robbery and homicide, and was made by the same people at the same time.
    SCOTUS wil not strike this portion of the Stoeln Valor Act down. It is unconstitutional on its face and nnever should have been passed. The sad result of this court case will be that the portions of the Stolen Valor Act that make it illegal to publicy portray a Veteran who earned those awards will be struck down, while the prohibitions to own them for the purposes of collection, preservation, and education will remain. And the people who wrote that HGCI memo in 1994 will have gotten what they wanted. They won’t care that its not all they wanted. They will consider it a step in the right direction.

  67. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    TT, and anyone else who has me in FB, check my wall for that t-shirt that Tedtam ordered…

  68. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    TT, and anyone else who has me in FB, check my wall for that t-shirt that Tedtam ordered…

  69. Tedtam Avatar

    As someone who dabbles in writing, this is a cool site.

    I’m waiting for the plot:

    An evil parasite has infected your president’s brain, making him think he just this side of God. Your protagonist has to find a solution to this problem.

    Another character is the ego-ridden wife of the president.

  70. Tedtam Avatar

    As someone who dabbles in writing, this is a cool site.
    I’m waiting for the plot:

    An evil parasite has infected your president’s brain, making him think he just this side of God. Your protagonist has to find a solution to this problem.
    Another character is the ego-ridden wife of the president.

  71. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #34 Pyro

    mh43

    Is that a promotion — or is the universe out of whack today?

  72. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #34 Pyro

    mh43

    Is that a promotion — or is the universe out of whack today?

  73. Adee Avatar
    Adee

    #34 wagonburner
    Was that the drapes with or without the curtain rod? 🙂

  74. Adee Avatar
    Adee

    #34 wagonburner
    Was that the drapes with or without the curtain rod? 🙂

  75. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    It has made it illegal to own certain military medals and awards and the Certificates that come with them.

    I don’t think that’s a correct interpretation. I think it’s illegal for unauthorized persons to buy, sell, or barter them. It’s not illegal for me to own the Purple Heart that was awarded to my father in 1952.

  76. Hamous Avatar

    It has made it illegal to own certain military medals and awards and the Certificates that come with them.

    I don’t think that’s a correct interpretation. I think it’s illegal for unauthorized persons to buy, sell, or barter them. It’s not illegal for me to own the Purple Heart that was awarded to my father in 1952.

  77. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    Here’s a goofball story. Many of the comments are about the comedic misuse of a word in the first sentence.

    When rescuers arrived at the scene, Skyllberg was emancipated and barely speaking. He had no food or water with him, only cigarettes and comic books, the Daily Mail said. It was believed he had been eating snow.

  78. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    Here’s a goofball story. Many of the comments are about the comedic misuse of a word in the first sentence.

    When rescuers arrived at the scene, Skyllberg was emancipated and barely speaking. He had no food or water with him, only cigarettes and comic books, the Daily Mail said. It was believed he had been eating snow.

  79. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    Guess where this happened?
    Wheelchair Man Charged In Convenience Store Robbery
    h/t Drudge

  80. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    Guess where this happened?
    Wheelchair Man Charged In Convenience Store Robbery
    h/t Drudge

  81. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    I don’t think that’s a correct interpretation. I think it’s illegal for unauthorized persons to buy, sell, or barter them. It’s not illegal for me to own the Purple Heart that was awarded to my father in 1952.

    Some interpretations have been that it is indeed illegal to own them simply because it is illegal to buy, sell, or barter them. The issue is who can transfer “ownership”. The restriction against buying, selling, or bartering can imply that changes of ownership are restricted and that the only legitimate “owner” of the medal is the recipient. I’d advised checking with a lawyer. Reenactors have been advised that it may be illegal for them to wear historically authentic uniforms and acoutrements as a result of the Stolen Valor Act, particularly WW2 and Viet Nam Impressionists.

    The law is a poorly written assault on individual Liberty that does not achieve what it claims it does. The law certainly does limit what the recipient can do with his award. I feel that if a veteran wants to sell his medal for the money that it can bring because he feels his family will benefit more from that, he cannot.

  82. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    I don’t think that’s a correct interpretation. I think it’s illegal for unauthorized persons to buy, sell, or barter them. It’s not illegal for me to own the Purple Heart that was awarded to my father in 1952.

    Some interpretations have been that it is indeed illegal to own them simply because it is illegal to buy, sell, or barter them. The issue is who can transfer “ownership”. The restriction against buying, selling, or bartering can imply that changes of ownership are restricted and that the only legitimate “owner” of the medal is the recipient. I’d advised checking with a lawyer. Reenactors have been advised that it may be illegal for them to wear historically authentic uniforms and acoutrements as a result of the Stolen Valor Act, particularly WW2 and Viet Nam Impressionists.
    The law is a poorly written assault on individual Liberty that does not achieve what it claims it does. The law certainly does limit what the recipient can do with his award. I feel that if a veteran wants to sell his medal for the money that it can bring because he feels his family will benefit more from that, he cannot.

  83. Hamous Avatar

    The portion of the stolen valor act I find praise worthy is that it criminalizes the fraudulent use of those medals; particularly when that fraud is used to increase ones stature as in the political arena. Having the medals as a collector’s item, or in a re-enactment or in a way that is not to imply fraudulent achievement is perfectly acceptable. This issue at hand is the attempt at fraud.

    Banning of military acoutrements Essential to the Neanderthal gun culture are the typical military clothing, camouflage, pouches, and gear, boots and other combat gear. They euphemistically refer to this as militaria . Elimination of the future sale of these items will cripple the culture of violence well into the 21 st century.

    is any of that actually contained in the act?

  84. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    The portion of the stolen valor act I find praise worthy is that it criminalizes the fraudulent use of those medals; particularly when that fraud is used to increase ones stature as in the political arena. Having the medals as a collector’s item, or in a re-enactment or in a way that is not to imply fraudulent achievement is perfectly acceptable. This issue at hand is the attempt at fraud.

    Banning of military acoutrements Essential to the Neanderthal gun culture are the typical military clothing, camouflage, pouches, and gear, boots and other combat gear. They euphemistically refer to this as militaria . Elimination of the future sale of these items will cripple the culture of violence well into the 21 st century.

    is any of that actually contained in the act?

  85. Tedtam Avatar

    I think there’s a difference between owning the medals and claiming to have earned them.

  86. Tedtam Avatar

    I think there’s a difference between owning the medals and claiming to have earned them.

  87. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    The portion of the stolen valor act I find praise worthy is that it criminalizes the fraudulent use of those medals;

    Fraud is defined as false claims in order to gain monetarily. That was already against the law. Fraud is fraud, no matter what is used to perpetrate it. Its the same kind of touchy feely crap behind Hate Crimes legislation.

    is any of that actually contained in the act?

    It is now illegal to buy or sell an item associated with the military.

    What do you think?

    I think its the top of a slippery slope that will lead to the outlawing of the ownership of military gear of all descriptions.

    Read the HGCI memo and decide for yourself.

  88. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    The portion of the stolen valor act I find praise worthy is that it criminalizes the fraudulent use of those medals;

    Fraud is defined as false claims in order to gain monetarily. That was already against the law. Fraud is fraud, no matter what is used to perpetrate it. Its the same kind of touchy feely crap behind Hate Crimes legislation.

    is any of that actually contained in the act?

    It is now illegal to buy or sell an item associated with the military.
    What do you think?
    I think its the top of a slippery slope that will lead to the outlawing of the ownership of military gear of all descriptions.
    Read the HGCI memo and decide for yourself.

  89. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    46 Tedtam says:
    February 20, 2012 at 2:16 pm
    I think there’s a difference between owning the medals and claiming to have earned them.

    Not in the Stolen Valor Act. You cannot own them as an investment because it is a crime to sell or barter them. If you recieved the medal for a valorous act, you are barred from recieving any monetary gain from having received it.

    And I guarantee you that SCOTUS will say that as long as no monetary gain is sought, it is unconstitutional to make it illegal to claim to have earned one.

  90. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    46 Tedtam says:
    February 20, 2012 at 2:16 pm
    I think there’s a difference between owning the medals and claiming to have earned them.

    Not in the Stolen Valor Act. You cannot own them as an investment because it is a crime to sell or barter them. If you recieved the medal for a valorous act, you are barred from recieving any monetary gain from having received it.
    And I guarantee you that SCOTUS will say that as long as no monetary gain is sought, it is unconstitutional to make it illegal to claim to have earned one.

  91. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    According to the author of the Act, Kent Conrad,

    Although the new law modifies Title 18 USC, Section 704, it does not impact the legitimate purchase, sale, or possession of medals. The key part of this passage is the phrase: “except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law.” That exception refers to 32 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Section 507. I believe the concerns raised by collectors and dealers of military medals and memorabilia may stem from lack of familiarity with the CFR and its relationship to statutory law. The CFR is the regulation that implements and administers statutory provisions, in this case, the provisions of 18 USC Section 704 as amended by the Stolen Valor Act.
    The CFR specifically states in Section 507.12 (“Mere possession by a person of any of the articles prescribed in Sec. 507.8 of this part is authorized provided that such possession is not used to defraud or misrepresent the identification or status of the individuals concerned.” According to numerous legal experts consulted on the drafting of the Stolen Valor legislation, “mere possession” would include: family members that inherit medals, museums, collectors, approved medals dealers, historians, and other persons in possession or selling medals that do not use them for fraudulent purposes. In addition, CFR Sec. 507.8(a) indicates, “the articles listed in paragraphs (a) (1) through (10) of this section are authorized for manufacture and sale when made in accordance with approved specifications, purchase descriptions or drawings.”
    The articles listed as authorized for manufacture and sale in Sec. 507.8(a) include: decorations, service medals, ribbons, lapel buttons, and badges with the exception of the Medal of Honor. The CFR allows for the sale of all US medals (except the Medal of Honor) and insignia, provided that an official government manufacturer has made them and that the Institute of Heraldry (IOH) approved those pieces. Thus, the Stolen Valor Act does not in any way stop collectors or dealers from selling or collecting officially made medals and insignia, whether they were made yesterday or fifty years ago.

    As I understand, only the Medal of Honor cannot be bought, sold, etc.

  92. Hamous Avatar

    According to the author of the Act, Kent Conrad,

    Although the new law modifies Title 18 USC, Section 704, it does not impact the legitimate purchase, sale, or possession of medals. The key part of this passage is the phrase: “except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law.” That exception refers to 32 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Section 507. I believe the concerns raised by collectors and dealers of military medals and memorabilia may stem from lack of familiarity with the CFR and its relationship to statutory law. The CFR is the regulation that implements and administers statutory provisions, in this case, the provisions of 18 USC Section 704 as amended by the Stolen Valor Act.
    The CFR specifically states in Section 507.12 (“Mere possession by a person of any of the articles prescribed in Sec. 507.8 of this part is authorized provided that such possession is not used to defraud or misrepresent the identification or status of the individuals concerned.” According to numerous legal experts consulted on the drafting of the Stolen Valor legislation, “mere possession” would include: family members that inherit medals, museums, collectors, approved medals dealers, historians, and other persons in possession or selling medals that do not use them for fraudulent purposes. In addition, CFR Sec. 507.8(a) indicates, “the articles listed in paragraphs (a) (1) through (10) of this section are authorized for manufacture and sale when made in accordance with approved specifications, purchase descriptions or drawings.”
    The articles listed as authorized for manufacture and sale in Sec. 507.8(a) include: decorations, service medals, ribbons, lapel buttons, and badges with the exception of the Medal of Honor. The CFR allows for the sale of all US medals (except the Medal of Honor) and insignia, provided that an official government manufacturer has made them and that the Institute of Heraldry (IOH) approved those pieces. Thus, the Stolen Valor Act does not in any way stop collectors or dealers from selling or collecting officially made medals and insignia, whether they were made yesterday or fifty years ago.

    As I understand, only the Medal of Honor cannot be bought, sold, etc.

  93. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    From the CFR:

    § 507.8 Articles authorized for manufacture and sale

    (a) The articles listed in paragraphs (a) (1) through (10) of this section are authorized for manufacture and sale when made in accordance with approved specifications, purchase descriptions or drawings.

    (1) All authorized insignia (AR 670-1 and AFI 36-2903).
    (2) Appurtenances and devices for decorations, medals, and ribbons such as oak leaf clusters, service stars, arrowheads, V-devices, and clasps.
    (3) Combat, special skill, occupational and qualification badges and bars.
    (4) Identification badges.
    (5) Fourrageres and lanyards.
    (6) Lapel buttons.
    (7) Decorations, service medals, and ribbons, except for the Medal of Honor.
    (8) Replicas of decorations and service medals for grave markers. Replicas are to be at least twice the size prescribed for decorations and service medals.
    (9) Service ribbons for decorations, service medals, and unit awards.
    (10) Rosettes.
    (11) Army emblem and branch of service plaques.

    (b) Variations from the prescribed specifications for the items listed in paragraph (a) of this section are not permitted without prior approval, in writing, by TIOH.
    [edit] § 507.9 Articles not authorized for manufacture or sale

    The following articles are not authorized for manufacture and sale, except under contract with DSCP:

    (a) The Medal of Honor.
    (b) Service ribbon for the Medal of Honor.
    (c) Rosette for the Medal of Honor.
    (d) Service flags (prescribed in AR 840-10 or AFR 900-3).
    (e) Army seal.
    (f) Commercial articles for public sale that incorporate designs or likenesses of decorations, service medals, and service ribbons.
    (g) Commercial articles for public sale that incorporate designs or likenesses of designs of insignia listed in Sec. 507.8 of this part, except when authorized by the Service concerned.

    § 507.12 Possession and wearing

    (a) The wearing of any decoration, service medal, badge, service ribbon, lapel button, or insignia prescribed or authorized by the Department of the Army and the Department of the Air Force by any person not properly authorized to wear such device, or the use of any decoration, service medal, badge, service ribbon, lapel button, or insignia to misrepresent the identification or status of the person by whom such is worn is prohibited. Any person who violates the provision of this section is subject to punishment as prescribed in the statutes referred to in Sec. 507.5 of this part.

    (b) Mere possession by a person of any of the articles prescribed in Sec. 507.8 of this part is authorized provided that such possession is not used to defraud or misrepresent the identification or status of the individual concerned.

    (c) Articles specified in Sec. 507.8 of this part, or any distinctive parts including suspension ribbons and service ribbons) or colorable imitations thereof, will not be used by any organization, society, or other group of persons without prior approval in writing by the Secretary of the Army or the Secretary of the Air Force.

    That makes it pretty clear.

  94. Hamous Avatar

    From the CFR:

    § 507.8 Articles authorized for manufacture and sale
    (a) The articles listed in paragraphs (a) (1) through (10) of this section are authorized for manufacture and sale when made in accordance with approved specifications, purchase descriptions or drawings.
    (1) All authorized insignia (AR 670-1 and AFI 36-2903).
    (2) Appurtenances and devices for decorations, medals, and ribbons such as oak leaf clusters, service stars, arrowheads, V-devices, and clasps.
    (3) Combat, special skill, occupational and qualification badges and bars.
    (4) Identification badges.
    (5) Fourrageres and lanyards.
    (6) Lapel buttons.
    (7) Decorations, service medals, and ribbons, except for the Medal of Honor.
    (8) Replicas of decorations and service medals for grave markers. Replicas are to be at least twice the size prescribed for decorations and service medals.
    (9) Service ribbons for decorations, service medals, and unit awards.
    (10) Rosettes.
    (11) Army emblem and branch of service plaques.
    (b) Variations from the prescribed specifications for the items listed in paragraph (a) of this section are not permitted without prior approval, in writing, by TIOH.
    [edit] § 507.9 Articles not authorized for manufacture or sale
    The following articles are not authorized for manufacture and sale, except under contract with DSCP:
    (a) The Medal of Honor.
    (b) Service ribbon for the Medal of Honor.
    (c) Rosette for the Medal of Honor.
    (d) Service flags (prescribed in AR 840-10 or AFR 900-3).
    (e) Army seal.
    (f) Commercial articles for public sale that incorporate designs or likenesses of decorations, service medals, and service ribbons.
    (g) Commercial articles for public sale that incorporate designs or likenesses of designs of insignia listed in Sec. 507.8 of this part, except when authorized by the Service concerned.
    § 507.12 Possession and wearing
    (a) The wearing of any decoration, service medal, badge, service ribbon, lapel button, or insignia prescribed or authorized by the Department of the Army and the Department of the Air Force by any person not properly authorized to wear such device, or the use of any decoration, service medal, badge, service ribbon, lapel button, or insignia to misrepresent the identification or status of the person by whom such is worn is prohibited. Any person who violates the provision of this section is subject to punishment as prescribed in the statutes referred to in Sec. 507.5 of this part.
    (b) Mere possession by a person of any of the articles prescribed in Sec. 507.8 of this part is authorized provided that such possession is not used to defraud or misrepresent the identification or status of the individual concerned.
    (c) Articles specified in Sec. 507.8 of this part, or any distinctive parts including suspension ribbons and service ribbons) or colorable imitations thereof, will not be used by any organization, society, or other group of persons without prior approval in writing by the Secretary of the Army or the Secretary of the Air Force.

    That makes it pretty clear.

  95. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    Outlaw the sale or posession of one type of gun, you merely establish the preceent that it is OK to make ownership of guns illegal. Outlaw church organizations making thier own decisions about the insurance they are going to purchase, you merely establish the precedent that it is OK for the government to make decisions for religions. Outlaw the sale or posession of one medal, you merely establish the precedent that it is OK to make ownership of medals illegal.

    The Liberty issue is the same, the slope is the same, the expansion of the power of government is the same.

    The Stolen Valor Act is a poorly written law that does not do what it says it does, and what it does do is unconstitutional.

    Whether you support it emotionally or not, whther you support the purported intnet or not, that fact remains.

    It is not as clear as it appears.

  96. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    Outlaw the sale or posession of one type of gun, you merely establish the preceent that it is OK to make ownership of guns illegal. Outlaw church organizations making thier own decisions about the insurance they are going to purchase, you merely establish the precedent that it is OK for the government to make decisions for religions. Outlaw the sale or posession of one medal, you merely establish the precedent that it is OK to make ownership of medals illegal.
    The Liberty issue is the same, the slope is the same, the expansion of the power of government is the same.
    The Stolen Valor Act is a poorly written law that does not do what it says it does, and what it does do is unconstitutional.
    Whether you support it emotionally or not, whther you support the purported intnet or not, that fact remains.
    It is not as clear as it appears.

  97. Dooood Avatar

    Mr. and Mrs. Matthew Bramanti delivered a new baby girl into the world at 12:45 PM CST today.

  98. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    Mr. and Mrs. Matthew Bramanti delivered a new baby girl into the world at 12:45 PM CST today.

  99. Hamous Avatar

    Another Baby Zilla makes the scene. Congrats Mr and Mrs Bramanti.

  100. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    Another Baby Zilla makes the scene. Congrats Mr and Mrs Bramanti.

  101. Hamous Avatar

    #51 Sarge:

    Outlaw the sale or posession of one type of gun, you merely establish the preceent that it is OK to make ownership of guns illegal.

    That is precisely why I have not gotten my concealed carry permit.

  102. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #51 Sarge:

    Outlaw the sale or posession of one type of gun, you merely establish the preceent that it is OK to make ownership of guns illegal.

    That is precisely why I have not gotten my concealed carry permit.

  103. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    #s 44 – 50 (or so)………….Well as an “only child” / Heir and currently in possession of my dearly departed Pop’s Silver Star that he earned serving under Blood & Guts Patton…………………………………….the phrase ending in “from my cold dead fingers” commeth to mind………………

    *no smiley*

  104. Katfish Avatar

    #s 44 – 50 (or so)………….Well as an “only child” / Heir and currently in possession of my dearly departed Pop’s Silver Star that he earned serving under Blood & Guts Patton…………………………………….the phrase ending in “from my cold dead fingers” commeth to mind………………
    *no smiley*

  105. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    #52 – Mazal Tov Al Holedet Habat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    OR

    מזל טוב על הולדת הבת

  106. Katfish Avatar

    #52 – Mazal Tov Al Holedet Habat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    OR
    מזל טוב על הולדת הבת

  107. Hamous Avatar

    #56 Katfish:

    מזל טוב על הולדת הבת

    Very impressive, sir.

  108. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #56 Katfish:

    מזל טוב על הולדת הבת

    Very impressive, sir.

  109. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    #57 – Hey I won’t take “false credit”………………..Google is my amigo………..

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_say_congratulations_on_your_new_baby_in_Hebrew

  110. Katfish Avatar

    #57 – Hey I won’t take “false credit”………………..Google is my amigo………..
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_say_congratulations_on_your_new_baby_in_Hebrew

  111. Katfish Avatar

    מזל טוב על הולדת הבת

    = “your asthmatic poodle ate my Buick”

  112. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    מזל טוב על הולדת הבת
    = “your asthmatic poodle ate my Buick”

  113. Katfish Avatar

    #43 mh42
    crackerland

    In other related news:

    A kite surfer was hospitalized Sunday after losing control in the air and colliding with a building

    There was no damage to the building, the spokeswoman added.

  114. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    #43 mh42
    crackerland
    In other related news:

    A kite surfer was hospitalized Sunday after losing control in the air and colliding with a building

    There was no damage to the building, the spokeswoman added.

  115. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    There is nothing ambiguous about this regulation:

    (b) Mere possession by a person of any of the articles prescribed in Sec. 507.8 of this part is authorized provided that such possession is not used to defraud or misrepresent the identification or status of the individual concerned.

    Unless I start telling people I was awarded the Purple Heart I have nothing to worry about.

    Outlaw the sale or posession of one type of gun, you merely establish the preceent that it is OK to make ownership of guns illegal. Outlaw church organizations making thier own decisions about the insurance they are going to purchase, you merely establish the precedent that it is OK for the government to make decisions for religions. Outlaw the sale or posession of one medal, you merely establish the precedent that it is OK to make ownership of medals illegal.

    The Liberty issue is the same, the slope is the same, the expansion of the power of government is the same.

    False dilemma. Let’s forget for a moment that the law clearly allows me to own my father’s medal. As opposed to all those other things you listed, nowhere in the Bill of Rights are you guaranteed the right to own a government-issued medal that you did not earn.

  116. Hamous Avatar

    There is nothing ambiguous about this regulation:

    (b) Mere possession by a person of any of the articles prescribed in Sec. 507.8 of this part is authorized provided that such possession is not used to defraud or misrepresent the identification or status of the individual concerned.

    Unless I start telling people I was awarded the Purple Heart I have nothing to worry about.

    Outlaw the sale or posession of one type of gun, you merely establish the preceent that it is OK to make ownership of guns illegal. Outlaw church organizations making thier own decisions about the insurance they are going to purchase, you merely establish the precedent that it is OK for the government to make decisions for religions. Outlaw the sale or posession of one medal, you merely establish the precedent that it is OK to make ownership of medals illegal.
    The Liberty issue is the same, the slope is the same, the expansion of the power of government is the same.

    False dilemma. Let’s forget for a moment that the law clearly allows me to own my father’s medal. As opposed to all those other things you listed, nowhere in the Bill of Rights are you guaranteed the right to own a government-issued medal that you did not earn.

  117. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    If you want to rely on an Army Regulation to interpret your legal situation, go ahead.

  118. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    If you want to rely on an Army Regulation to interpret your legal situation, go ahead.

  119. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    nowhere in the Bill of Rights are you guaranteed the right to own a government-issued medal that you did not earn.

    Nowhere in the Bill of rights does it give the government the right to tell me what I can own or not own.

  120. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    nowhere in the Bill of Rights are you guaranteed the right to own a government-issued medal that you did not earn.

    Nowhere in the Bill of rights does it give the government the right to tell me what I can own or not own.

  121. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    If you want to rely on an Army Regulation to interpret your legal situation, go ahead.

    Well since the CFR codifies the law of the land I think that’s my safest bet. If you want to get your knickers knotted based on what you read on reenactment forums and divining hidden meanings in the penumbra of the CFR go ahead.

  122. Hamous Avatar

    If you want to rely on an Army Regulation to interpret your legal situation, go ahead.

    Well since the CFR codifies the law of the land I think that’s my safest bet. If you want to get your knickers knotted based on what you read on reenactment forums and divining hidden meanings in the penumbra of the CFR go ahead.

  123. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    And why can the government tell a citizen he can’t own something that was paid for by his own taxpayer dollars once the government releases posession of that item?

    You’re advocating for the closure of Army Surplus Stores without even knowing it.

  124. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    And why can the government tell a citizen he can’t own something that was paid for by his own taxpayer dollars once the government releases posession of that item?
    You’re advocating for the closure of Army Surplus Stores without even knowing it.

  125. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    Nowhere in the Bill of rights does it give the government the right to tell me what I can own or not own.

    Go out and buy you a couple hundred kilos of smack, then. It’s your constitutional right!

  126. Hamous Avatar

    Nowhere in the Bill of rights does it give the government the right to tell me what I can own or not own.

    Go out and buy you a couple hundred kilos of smack, then. It’s your constitutional right!

  127. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    You’re advocating for the closure of Army Surplus Stores without even knowing it.

    Jayzus. That’s absurd. First, a service medal is not the same as a pair of army boots. Second, I quoted actual government regulation that clearly states you can buy, sell and trade medals. I can see where this is heading (blog monkey rule #6) so please feel free to continue to argue with yourself.

  128. Hamous Avatar

    You’re advocating for the closure of Army Surplus Stores without even knowing it.

    Jayzus. That’s absurd. First, a service medal is not the same as a pair of army boots. Second, I quoted actual government regulation that clearly states you can buy, sell and trade medals. I can see where this is heading (blog monkey rule #6) so please feel free to continue to argue with yourself.

  129. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    Jayzus. That’s absurd. First, a service medal is not the same as a pair of army boots. Second, I quoted actual government regulation that clearly states you can buy, sell and trade medals. I can see where this is heading (blog monkey rule #6) so please feel free to continue to argue with yourself.

    Absurd?

    Until a couple of years ago, you could collect any kind of medal you wanted.

    A couple years ago you could buy any kind of toilet you wanted.

    A couple years ago you could buy any kind of lightbulb you wanted.

    All it takes is giving them permission to do it because it makes you feel good .

  130. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    Jayzus. That’s absurd. First, a service medal is not the same as a pair of army boots. Second, I quoted actual government regulation that clearly states you can buy, sell and trade medals. I can see where this is heading (blog monkey rule #6) so please feel free to continue to argue with yourself.

    Absurd?
    Until a couple of years ago, you could collect any kind of medal you wanted.
    A couple years ago you could buy any kind of toilet you wanted.
    A couple years ago you could buy any kind of lightbulb you wanted.
    All it takes is giving them permission to do it because it makes you feel good .

  131. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    We’ve been giving up our Liberties a little at a time in the name of doing right by somebody else.

    A couple of years ago, it was absurd to think that two men could get married.

  132. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    We’ve been giving up our Liberties a little at a time in the name of doing right by somebody else.
    A couple of years ago, it was absurd to think that two men could get married.

  133. Tedtam Avatar

    Congratulations to the Bramanti family! May peaceful nights ensue as quickly as possible.

  134. Tedtam Avatar

    Congratulations to the Bramanti family! May peaceful nights ensue as quickly as possible.

  135. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    A couple of years ago, it was absurd to think that the government would tell a religious institution what it could do.

  136. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    A couple of years ago, it was absurd to think that the government would tell a religious institution what it could do.

  137. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    From Military Trader Magazine:

    The key subsection of the law reads as follows:

    Title 18, United States Code, Section 704

    (a) In General. – Whoever knowingly wears, purchases, attempts to purchase, solicits for purchase, mails, ships, imports, exports, produces blank certificates of receipt, manufactures, or sells, attempts to sell, advertises for sale, trades, barters or exchanges for anything of value any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

    snip

    Critics of the law maintain that wording is so vague it makes it unclear whether older medals are legal for trade, and again that active duty soldiers might not even be able to mail home their own medals. “There is much confusion regarding the new law as the intent was to provide a way to find and prosecute those individuals whose intent was to fraudulently claim either verbally, in writing or through the act of wearing that the individual was a recipient of the Medal of Honor, Distinguished Service Cross, Air Force Cross, Navy Cross, Silver Star and Purple Heart,” explained Captain Dean Veremakis, USNR (Ret.).

    Veremakis, who serves as the president of the Orders & Medals Society of America, a group with more than 1,500 members worldwide, believes that the lack of specific verbiage about the fraudulent claim actually makes the law all too encompassing. “Any veteran cannot replace lost medals by buying them from the navy or army exchange! Medal manufacturers cannot ship their goods to army/navy surplus stores and museums can no longer accept any donations of medals because of the law.”

    The OMSA president further emphasized that the efforts to protect the valor actually serve as an invasion on the liberties of those who actually won the very awards. “The reaction from the hobby has been outrage because of the issue of personal property. How can the government, who has given these awards out, which become the personal property of the individual, now say that they cannot dispose of them as they wish?”

    However, according to staff officials for Senator Conrad and Congressman Salazar this was not the intention. It was not believed that the law would be interpreted in this way, nor was it believed that there would be this level of ambiguity about the law.

  138. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    From Military Trader Magazine:

    The key subsection of the law reads as follows:

    Title 18, United States Code, Section 704
    (a) In General. – Whoever knowingly wears, purchases, attempts to purchase, solicits for purchase, mails, ships, imports, exports, produces blank certificates of receipt, manufactures, or sells, attempts to sell, advertises for sale, trades, barters or exchanges for anything of value any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

    snip
    Critics of the law maintain that wording is so vague it makes it unclear whether older medals are legal for trade, and again that active duty soldiers might not even be able to mail home their own medals. “There is much confusion regarding the new law as the intent was to provide a way to find and prosecute those individuals whose intent was to fraudulently claim either verbally, in writing or through the act of wearing that the individual was a recipient of the Medal of Honor, Distinguished Service Cross, Air Force Cross, Navy Cross, Silver Star and Purple Heart,” explained Captain Dean Veremakis, USNR (Ret.).
    Veremakis, who serves as the president of the Orders & Medals Society of America, a group with more than 1,500 members worldwide, believes that the lack of specific verbiage about the fraudulent claim actually makes the law all too encompassing. “Any veteran cannot replace lost medals by buying them from the navy or army exchange! Medal manufacturers cannot ship their goods to army/navy surplus stores and museums can no longer accept any donations of medals because of the law.”
    The OMSA president further emphasized that the efforts to protect the valor actually serve as an invasion on the liberties of those who actually won the very awards. “The reaction from the hobby has been outrage because of the issue of personal property. How can the government, who has given these awards out, which become the personal property of the individual, now say that they cannot dispose of them as they wish?”
    However, according to staff officials for Senator Conrad and Congressman Salazar this was not the intention. It was not believed that the law would be interpreted in this way, nor was it believed that there would be this level of ambiguity about the law.

  139. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    The discussion here by members and graduates of the of the Service Academies also provides a good deal of information and opinion, including the stand of OMSA as well as veterans who have earned the medals.

    I believe some folks would find it very enlightening .

  140. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    The discussion here by members and graduates of the of the Service Academies also provides a good deal of information and opinion, including the stand of OMSA as well as veterans who have earned the medals.
    I believe some folks would find it very enlightening .

  141. Hamous Avatar

    re: medals, ribbons, etc. This entire discussion is indicative of a greater problem and one that is far more pernicious; ie: the wording of legislation and regulations is such a fashion that they become unintelligible and/or are so full of conflicting thrusts that they guarantee that the issue will have to come before a judge, with lawyers on both sides to resolve the issue(s). Then we come to the judge who has to tell us what the law means and that will vary from judge to judge, this removes from society rule of law and replaces it with rule of judge. That vibration we all feel is our founding fathers spinning in their graves.

  142. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    re: medals, ribbons, etc. This entire discussion is indicative of a greater problem and one that is far more pernicious; ie: the wording of legislation and regulations is such a fashion that they become unintelligible and/or are so full of conflicting thrusts that they guarantee that the issue will have to come before a judge, with lawyers on both sides to resolve the issue(s). Then we come to the judge who has to tell us what the law means and that will vary from judge to judge, this removes from society rule of law and replaces it with rule of judge. That vibration we all feel is our founding fathers spinning in their graves.

  143. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #50 Hammy

    That makes it pretty clear.

    When it’s gubmint, “it” can change at any time. People ask me something or other about how Social Security works, and I’ve always said I don’t waste time figuring out how gubmint programs work. Cuz it may all be different by the time I need to know.

  144. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #50 Hammy

    That makes it pretty clear.

    When it’s gubmint, “it” can change at any time. People ask me something or other about how Social Security works, and I’ve always said I don’t waste time figuring out how gubmint programs work. Cuz it may all be different by the time I need to know.

  145. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #61 Hammy

    nowhere in the Bill of Rights are you guaranteed the right to own a government-issued medal that you did not earn.

    There must always be a common-sense provision when it comes to inheriting a treasured medal earned by an ancestor. No matter what else they ever declare illegal.

  146. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #61 Hammy

    nowhere in the Bill of Rights are you guaranteed the right to own a government-issued medal that you did not earn.

    There must always be a common-sense provision when it comes to inheriting a treasured medal earned by an ancestor. No matter what else they ever declare illegal.

  147. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    This entire discussion is indicative of a greater problem and one that is far more pernicious; ie: the wording of legislation and regulations is such a fashion that they become unintelligible and/or are so full of conflicting thrusts that they guarantee that the issue will have to come before a judge, with lawyers on both sides to resolve the issue(s).

    You solve that problem by not writing any of these freakin laws intended to make people feel good about themselves because they support the purported idea behind it and to make a Senator or Copngressman look like he’s Vet freindly.

    This guy in that Service Academy Members Forum says it right:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mongo
    The intent of those who wrote the law was that stealing valor was no different than stealing VA benefits. Are you aware that if you meet someone who claims that they earned a MOH, DSC, Navy or AF Cross or were a POW, the odds are more than double that they are a fake? That these same individuals are speaking to schools, civic and fraternal organizations, etc. They are indeed stealing the valor of those who earned it and should be prosecuted.

    Actually, it’s no different from claiming they were a member of Deep Purple, or once played 2nd base for the Dodgers. You are looking for prosecution based on the content of the lie.

    Should those who claim to be ex-professional baseball players be prosecuted?

    That pesky ol’ 1st Amendment is there for a reason. Even unpopular speech is protected.

    Those who claim to be war heroes should be exposed as liars, they should be publicly shamed. But to make the content of speech a prosecutable crime?

    Very dangerous ground.

    If they profit or gain from the lie, that’s fraud, lock them up.

  148. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    This entire discussion is indicative of a greater problem and one that is far more pernicious; ie: the wording of legislation and regulations is such a fashion that they become unintelligible and/or are so full of conflicting thrusts that they guarantee that the issue will have to come before a judge, with lawyers on both sides to resolve the issue(s).

    You solve that problem by not writing any of these freakin laws intended to make people feel good about themselves because they support the purported idea behind it and to make a Senator or Copngressman look like he’s Vet freindly.
    This guy in that Service Academy Members Forum says it right:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mongo
    The intent of those who wrote the law was that stealing valor was no different than stealing VA benefits. Are you aware that if you meet someone who claims that they earned a MOH, DSC, Navy or AF Cross or were a POW, the odds are more than double that they are a fake? That these same individuals are speaking to schools, civic and fraternal organizations, etc. They are indeed stealing the valor of those who earned it and should be prosecuted.

    Actually, it’s no different from claiming they were a member of Deep Purple, or once played 2nd base for the Dodgers. You are looking for prosecution based on the content of the lie.
    Should those who claim to be ex-professional baseball players be prosecuted?
    That pesky ol’ 1st Amendment is there for a reason. Even unpopular speech is protected.
    Those who claim to be war heroes should be exposed as liars, they should be publicly shamed. But to make the content of speech a prosecutable crime?
    Very dangerous ground.
    If they profit or gain from the lie, that’s fraud, lock them up.

  149. Tedtam Avatar

    Another one realizes he’s on a plantation.

    And BTW – I don’t pronounce it “kose,” I pronounce is “Kay-oss”.

    KOS blogger is banned because he raised questions regarding Islam, and has his face and name plastered all over Islamic sites as a blasphemer against Allah.

    And like the interviewer says (not quite verbatim): “They say this isn’t a violent religion, but if you say something against them, we’ll help them kill you.”
    This last line says it all:

    The price for dissent on the left is high: you’re either of hive mind or you’re ostracized.

    Comment:

    They do eat their own children, don’t they?

    Now, if he said something bad about Obama in the same article, he would have just disappeared completely.

  150. Tedtam Avatar

    Another one realizes he’s on a plantation.
    And BTW – I don’t pronounce it “kose,” I pronounce is “Kay-oss”.
    KOS blogger is banned because he raised questions regarding Islam, and has his face and name plastered all over Islamic sites as a blasphemer against Allah.
    And like the interviewer says (not quite verbatim): “They say this isn’t a violent religion, but if you say something against them, we’ll help them kill you.”
    This last line says it all:

    The price for dissent on the left is high: you’re either of hive mind or you’re ostracized.

    Comment:

    They do eat their own children, don’t they?
    Now, if he said something bad about Obama in the same article, he would have just disappeared completely.

  151. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    Actually, it’s no different from claiming they were a member of Deep Purple, or once played 2nd base for the Dodgers. You are looking for prosecution based on the content of the lie.

    Ahh. Now I understand what’s going on here.

  152. Hamous Avatar

    Actually, it’s no different from claiming they were a member of Deep Purple, or once played 2nd base for the Dodgers. You are looking for prosecution based on the content of the lie.

    Ahh. Now I understand what’s going on here.

  153. Hamous Avatar

    #78 Sarge: From your blockquoted section from Mongo:

    Actually, it’s no different from claiming they were a member of Deep Purple, or once played 2nd base for the Dodgers.

    BULL SCHIZZLE!! None of the absurd examples swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the US from enemies here and abroad. None of those places their very life in jeopardy in the course of normal business as do the members of the armed forces. Further, none of those examples, by definition, represent the USA as employees duty bound to the USA. The differences are many and significant. Mongo needs to go back and saddle his bull

  154. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #78 Sarge: From your blockquoted section from Mongo:

    Actually, it’s no different from claiming they were a member of Deep Purple, or once played 2nd base for the Dodgers.

    BULL SCHIZZLE!! None of the absurd examples swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the US from enemies here and abroad. None of those places their very life in jeopardy in the course of normal business as do the members of the armed forces. Further, none of those examples, by definition, represent the USA as employees duty bound to the USA. The differences are many and significant. Mongo needs to go back and saddle his bull

  155. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    Remember General Douchey McChinpubes? Playing dress-up, presenting yourself as a decorated war veteran, and/or inflating your rank is not the same as pretending you’re Ritchie Blackmore. Of course it’s different.

  156. Hamous Avatar

    Remember General Douchey McChinpubes? Playing dress-up, presenting yourself as a decorated war veteran, and/or inflating your rank is not the same as pretending you’re Ritchie Blackmore. Of course it’s different.

  157. Hamous Avatar

    If they profit or gain from the lie, that’s fraud, lock them up.

    If, by virtue of the fraudulent medals, they gain a drink in a bar, an extra vote in an election, or even some prestige – that counts as “gain” in my book.

  158. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    If they profit or gain from the lie, that’s fraud, lock them up.

    If, by virtue of the fraudulent medals, they gain a drink in a bar, an extra vote in an election, or even some prestige – that counts as “gain” in my book.

  159. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    80 Hamous says:

    February 20, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    Actually, it’s no different from claiming they were a member of Deep Purple, or once played 2nd base for the Dodgers. You are looking for prosecution based on the content of the lie.

    Ahh. Now I understand what’s going on here.

    Of course you do.

    The argument that says

    “Its only medals and, besides, normal people don’t need them anyway.”

    is the same as

    “Its only the semi-automatic weapons that look like assault rifles and, besides, hunters don’t use them anyway.”

    The best way to get people to deny liberties to each other is to first deny them to those considered “out of the mainstream.”

    Have you even read the HGCI memo?

    Remember that it was written at a time when Bill Clinton was in the White House. You could buy any semi-automatic weapon you wanted, no matter what it looked like. You could take it home on the day of purchase. You could buy it without a back ground check.

    I remember the day that my Dad got his .243 Remington with the Weaver V12 scope he ordered from the Herter’s catalog in the mail. In. The. Mail.

    Today, you can now buy what is euphemistically called an assault rifle, but you have to undergo a back ground check, and if you buy a pistol you have to wait 7 days to take delivery.

    And we also have an Administration that allowed the sale of thousands of those rifles into Mexico so they could make the case to re-instate the “Assault Rifle Ban.”

    All of those goals are expressed in that HGCI memo, along with the goal of outlawing reenactments and the sale of militaria.

    But you want to tell us that this issue is about McWhiskers.

    Jeff Floyd, the gentleman mentioned in the first paragraphs of the Military Trader article is the fellow with whom I had dinner that night, along with the Area Vice President of ASMIC. At the time I was on the Board of the Texas Militaria Collectors Association. A few years later I was on the Board of the Texas Military Historical Society, a Reenactment Group. We all sought legal advice regarding Stolen Valor before and after its passage. I beleive I will continue to form my opinion on this based on those opinions and information rather than your 10 minutes of Google-fu and a couple of snarky comments.

  160. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    80 Hamous says:
    February 20, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    Actually, it’s no different from claiming they were a member of Deep Purple, or once played 2nd base for the Dodgers. You are looking for prosecution based on the content of the lie.

    Ahh. Now I understand what’s going on here.

    Of course you do.
    The argument that says
    “Its only medals and, besides, normal people don’t need them anyway.”
    is the same as
    “Its only the semi-automatic weapons that look like assault rifles and, besides, hunters don’t use them anyway.”
    The best way to get people to deny liberties to each other is to first deny them to those considered “out of the mainstream.”
    Have you even read the HGCI memo?
    Remember that it was written at a time when Bill Clinton was in the White House. You could buy any semi-automatic weapon you wanted, no matter what it looked like. You could take it home on the day of purchase. You could buy it without a back ground check.
    I remember the day that my Dad got his .243 Remington with the Weaver V12 scope he ordered from the Herter’s catalog in the mail. In. The. Mail.
    Today, you can now buy what is euphemistically called an assault rifle, but you have to undergo a back ground check, and if you buy a pistol you have to wait 7 days to take delivery.
    And we also have an Administration that allowed the sale of thousands of those rifles into Mexico so they could make the case to re-instate the “Assault Rifle Ban.”
    All of those goals are expressed in that HGCI memo, along with the goal of outlawing reenactments and the sale of militaria.
    But you want to tell us that this issue is about McWhiskers.
    Jeff Floyd, the gentleman mentioned in the first paragraphs of the Military Trader article is the fellow with whom I had dinner that night, along with the Area Vice President of ASMIC. At the time I was on the Board of the Texas Militaria Collectors Association. A few years later I was on the Board of the Texas Military Historical Society, a Reenactment Group. We all sought legal advice regarding Stolen Valor before and after its passage. I beleive I will continue to form my opinion on this based on those opinions and information rather than your 10 minutes of Google-fu and a couple of snarky comments.

  161. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    If, by virtue of the fraudulent medals, they gain a drink in a bar, an extra vote in an election, or even some prestige – that counts as “gain” in my book.

    Then let the man who bought him a drink sue him and leave collectors alone.

    Its not against the law to lie. Its against the law to lie to an LEO in the course of his duties, but if his daughter tells him there will be adults at the party she’s going to, she’s not going to jail. If you dress in rags and say you are poor, you can’t be arrested. If you go down to collect welfare dressed in rags, you’re breaking the law. If you stand on the street corner dressed ion rags and people hand you dollar bills out the window, that’s because they are idiots.

    None of the absurd examples swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the US from enemies here and abroad. None of those places their very life in jeopardy in the course of normal business as do the members of the armed forces. Further, none of those examples, by definition, represent the USA as employees duty bound to the USA. The differences are many and significant. Mongo needs to go back and saddle his bull

    But I did swear that oath, as well as Mongo—because he can’t be a member of that forum without being a student at or a graduate of West Point, Annapolis, or the Air Force Academy. If someone wants to claim he is the second coming of Audie Murphy, he does no actual harm to anybody—not even a Veteran.

    Now some may claim that they are expressing those opinions in order to give them the right to dress up in a uniform they did not earn, but I think they would all beg to differ.

  162. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    If, by virtue of the fraudulent medals, they gain a drink in a bar, an extra vote in an election, or even some prestige – that counts as “gain” in my book.

    Then let the man who bought him a drink sue him and leave collectors alone.
    Its not against the law to lie. Its against the law to lie to an LEO in the course of his duties, but if his daughter tells him there will be adults at the party she’s going to, she’s not going to jail. If you dress in rags and say you are poor, you can’t be arrested. If you go down to collect welfare dressed in rags, you’re breaking the law. If you stand on the street corner dressed ion rags and people hand you dollar bills out the window, that’s because they are idiots.

    None of the absurd examples swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the US from enemies here and abroad. None of those places their very life in jeopardy in the course of normal business as do the members of the armed forces. Further, none of those examples, by definition, represent the USA as employees duty bound to the USA. The differences are many and significant. Mongo needs to go back and saddle his bull

    But I did swear that oath, as well as Mongo—because he can’t be a member of that forum without being a student at or a graduate of West Point, Annapolis, or the Air Force Academy. If someone wants to claim he is the second coming of Audie Murphy, he does no actual harm to anybody—not even a Veteran.
    Now some may claim that they are expressing those opinions in order to give them the right to dress up in a uniform they did not earn, but I think they would all beg to differ.

  163. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    Whatever you say, Sarge.

  164. Hamous Avatar

    Whatever you say, Sarge.

  165. Adee Avatar
    Adee

    Am about to delve into Tom Clancy’s Against All Enemies, all 709 paperback pages of it. A Clancy book usually turns out to be a marathon read. However spouse and I have lately been watching our way through the episodes of Deep Space Nine, so I will have to make time for them.

    Good thing all but a few items for the tax preparer are checked and finished.

  166. Adee Avatar
    Adee

    Am about to delve into Tom Clancy’s Against All Enemies, all 709 paperback pages of it. A Clancy book usually turns out to be a marathon read. However spouse and I have lately been watching our way through the episodes of Deep Space Nine, so I will have to make time for them.
    Good thing all but a few items for the tax preparer are checked and finished.

  167. Adee Avatar
    Adee

    Congratulations to the Bramanti family on the arrival of their new daughter.
    Sweet dreams.

  168. Adee Avatar
    Adee

    Congratulations to the Bramanti family on the arrival of their new daughter.
    Sweet dreams.

  169. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    Whatever you say, Sarge.

    You’re all about supporting the veterans, aren’t you?

  170. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    Whatever you say, Sarge.

    You’re all about supporting the veterans, aren’t you?

  171. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    Absolutely. Whatever you say, Sarge.

  172. Hamous Avatar

    Absolutely. Whatever you say, Sarge.

  173. Dooood Avatar

    I’m betting money Mongo will be a JAG officer and never see a day in combat or under fire. He’ll be designing all the fantastic rules of engagement our fighting men and women have to suffer under.

  174. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    I’m betting money Mongo will be a JAG officer and never see a day in combat or under fire. He’ll be designing all the fantastic rules of engagement our fighting men and women have to suffer under.

  175. Hamous Avatar

    #84 Sarge:

    Today, you can now buy what is euphemistically called an assault rifle, but you have to undergo a back ground check, and if you buy a pistol you have to wait 7 days to take delivery.

    Has something changed since Nov or Dec 2011? I went to the gun show in the Conroe area and bought a semi-auto pistol then, I took it home after the background check which took all of 5 minutes everything happened on the same day. What is this 7 days of which you speak?

    Based on my last gun purchase, and the one SD made recently, your statement of having to wait 7 days for the background check pegs out my BS-O-Meter!

  176. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #84 Sarge:

    Today, you can now buy what is euphemistically called an assault rifle, but you have to undergo a back ground check, and if you buy a pistol you have to wait 7 days to take delivery.

    Has something changed since Nov or Dec 2011? I went to the gun show in the Conroe area and bought a semi-auto pistol then, I took it home after the background check which took all of 5 minutes everything happened on the same day. What is this 7 days of which you speak?
    Based on my last gun purchase, and the one SD made recently, your statement of having to wait 7 days for the background check pegs out my BS-O-Meter!

  177. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    Based on my last gun purchase, and the one SD made recently, your statement of having to wait 7 days for the background check pegs out my BS-O-Meter!

    I haven’t purchased a firearm from a dealer since Katrina. If the 7 day waiting period has been overturned, that’s a step in the right direction. But if you purchased from a private individual at a gun show, neither the back ground check or a waiting period was required, and may not be now.

  178. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    Based on my last gun purchase, and the one SD made recently, your statement of having to wait 7 days for the background check pegs out my BS-O-Meter!

    I haven’t purchased a firearm from a dealer since Katrina. If the 7 day waiting period has been overturned, that’s a step in the right direction. But if you purchased from a private individual at a gun show, neither the back ground check or a waiting period was required, and may not be now.

  179. shamaal Avatar
    shamaal

    And I thought the biggest fur-ball in Austin was in the Governor’s mansion.

    An Austin, Texas, organization said it is working to build the world’s largest ball of dog fur and has asked for donations.

  180. shamaal Avatar
    shamaal

    And I thought the biggest fur-ball in Austin was in the Governor’s mansion.

    An Austin, Texas, organization said it is working to build the world’s largest ball of dog fur and has asked for donations.

  181. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    Having checked, the Handgun Purchse waiting period does not apply in Texas.

    My bad.

  182. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    Having checked, the Handgun Purchse waiting period does not apply in Texas.
    My bad.

  183. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    I will say, though, that the underlying point is still valid: our rights are slowly being eroded. And there is a greater danger from floks on our side who claim its not happening than there is from the folks on the other side trying to make it happen.

  184. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    I will say, though, that the underlying point is still valid: our rights are slowly being eroded. And there is a greater danger from floks on our side who claim its not happening than there is from the folks on the other side trying to make it happen.

  185. Hamous Avatar

    #93 Sarge: I purchased from a gun dealer at the show. When I bought my M4 about 18 months ago it was at a dealer’s shop in The Woodlands, and it was the same story then, it took longer for the dealer to fill out his portion of the paperwork than the background check. I like the idea of the background check, it helps weed out the stoopid who are not eligible to purchase a firearm due to their previous behavior and/or citizenship. My understanding is that those who are felons (and have lost their right to own/posses a firearm) are in grave danger of going back to prison if they attempt to purchase, although I could be wrong on that point.
    When the feds/atf/fbi/dhs etc decide that anybody who votes in the R primary constitutes a risk, then we are speaking of a whole new ball game.

  186. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #93 Sarge: I purchased from a gun dealer at the show. When I bought my M4 about 18 months ago it was at a dealer’s shop in The Woodlands, and it was the same story then, it took longer for the dealer to fill out his portion of the paperwork than the background check. I like the idea of the background check, it helps weed out the stoopid who are not eligible to purchase a firearm due to their previous behavior and/or citizenship. My understanding is that those who are felons (and have lost their right to own/posses a firearm) are in grave danger of going back to prison if they attempt to purchase, although I could be wrong on that point.
    When the feds/atf/fbi/dhs etc decide that anybody who votes in the R primary constitutes a risk, then we are speaking of a whole new ball game.

  187. texanadian Avatar
    texanadian

    Sarge
    I haven’t purchased a firearm from a dealer since Katrina. If the 7 day waiting period has been overturned, that’s a step in the right direction. But if you purchased from a private individual at a gun show, neither the back ground check or a waiting period was required, and may not be now.

    Man, it’s been a while since you purchased a “Hand-Gun” from a dealer, the “Instant Background Check” has been around since 1998! Also, it’s still legal to buy a gun from a person that is not a dealer even if they are at a gun show. 😉

  188. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    Sarge
    I haven’t purchased a firearm from a dealer since Katrina. If the 7 day waiting period has been overturned, that’s a step in the right direction. But if you purchased from a private individual at a gun show, neither the back ground check or a waiting period was required, and may not be now.

    Man, it’s been a while since you purchased a “Hand-Gun” from a dealer, the “Instant Background Check” has been around since 1998! Also, it’s still legal to buy a gun from a person that is not a dealer even if they are at a gun show. 😉

  189. texanadian Avatar
    texanadian

    Oh, and the background check takes all of two minutes and can be done 24-7. Your information is entered into the FBI/BATF computer data base and if you have no history of BAD crap, it goes through.

  190. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    Oh, and the background check takes all of two minutes and can be done 24-7. Your information is entered into the FBI/BATF computer data base and if you have no history of BAD crap, it goes through.

  191. shamaal Avatar
    shamaal

    #69 sarge

    First they came for the toilets;

    then they came for the lightbulbs …………….

  192. shamaal Avatar
    shamaal

    #69 sarge
    First they came for the toilets;
    then they came for the lightbulbs …………….

  193. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    There never was a waiting period for a long gun. I purchased an AMT Hardballer Longslide from Carter’s Country in the lat ’90s (before I got married and had to clear such purchases) and had to wait 7 days to pick it up.

    I purchased this after Katrina. Sold it last year to keep from starving to death in the Obama economy.

    I still have this, though. Should be enough, along with the wheel gun.

    And I disagree with the background check. You shouldn’t have to prove you’re not a criminal in order to exercise a right guaranteed by the Constitution. You should have to prove you are who you say you are and thats it. I don’t want any kind of record in any kind of database that shows I purchased a firearm.

  194. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    There never was a waiting period for a long gun. I purchased an AMT Hardballer Longslide from Carter’s Country in the lat ’90s (before I got married and had to clear such purchases) and had to wait 7 days to pick it up.
    I purchased this after Katrina. Sold it last year to keep from starving to death in the Obama economy.
    I still have this, though. Should be enough, along with the wheel gun.
    And I disagree with the background check. You shouldn’t have to prove you’re not a criminal in order to exercise a right guaranteed by the Constitution. You should have to prove you are who you say you are and thats it. I don’t want any kind of record in any kind of database that shows I purchased a firearm.

  195. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    Man, it’s been a while since you purchased a “Hand-Gun” from a dealer

    My last handgun purchase from a dealer was that one at Carter’s country. I may r may not have purchased and sold several from or to private individuals since then, and i may have bought or sold a long gun or two as well.

  196. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    Man, it’s been a while since you purchased a “Hand-Gun” from a dealer

    My last handgun purchase from a dealer was that one at Carter’s country. I may r may not have purchased and sold several from or to private individuals since then, and i may have bought or sold a long gun or two as well.

  197. texanadian Avatar
    texanadian

    There never was a waiting period for a long gun.

    Nope and I don’t think said that there was.

    And I disagree with the background check. You shouldn’t have to prove you’re not a criminal in order to exercise a right guaranteed by the Constitution. You should have to prove you are who you say you are and thats it. I don’t want any kind of record in any kind of database that shows I purchased a firearm.

    I also disagree with the background check.

  198. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    There never was a waiting period for a long gun.

    Nope and I don’t think said that there was.

    And I disagree with the background check. You shouldn’t have to prove you’re not a criminal in order to exercise a right guaranteed by the Constitution. You should have to prove you are who you say you are and thats it. I don’t want any kind of record in any kind of database that shows I purchased a firearm.

    I also disagree with the background check.

  199. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    As I said, I remember my Dad buyin guns from Herters and having them mailed to the house. While there may not be a waiting period any longer in Texas, they still exist in other states. You have to fill out a government form. You have to be run through a government computer.

    All of that is done to “protect us.”

    Which is why I think that the Stolen Valor Act, noble as its intent on the surface might be, is only a foot in the door for an effort to eventually deny us the right to own surplus military gear and equipment.

    Why do I beleive that?

    Because in 1996, Handgun Control Incorporated said that was what they intended to do.

  200. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    As I said, I remember my Dad buyin guns from Herters and having them mailed to the house. While there may not be a waiting period any longer in Texas, they still exist in other states. You have to fill out a government form. You have to be run through a government computer.
    All of that is done to “protect us.”
    Which is why I think that the Stolen Valor Act, noble as its intent on the surface might be, is only a foot in the door for an effort to eventually deny us the right to own surplus military gear and equipment.
    Why do I beleive that?
    Because in 1996, Handgun Control Incorporated said that was what they intended to do.

  201. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    First, they will round you up and send you to the FEMA camps. And those camps are guarded by manbearpigs. I’m serial!

  202. Hamous Avatar

    First, they will round you up and send you to the FEMA camps. And those camps are guarded by manbearpigs. I’m serial!

  203. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    First, they will make you put a warning lable on cigarettes, then they will make it illegal to smoke in bars.

    First they will make Hate Crime laws, then they will make it legal for men to marry each other.

    First they will make it illegal to buy guns through the mail, then they will make you undergo a background check to buy one.

    First they will provide heath care for the elderly, then they will force individuals to buy health insurance or pay a fine.

    First they will set standards for employer provided health care, then they will force churches to provide abortion drugs.

    Yah—I know.

    Crazy talk.

  204. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    First, they will make you put a warning lable on cigarettes, then they will make it illegal to smoke in bars.
    First they will make Hate Crime laws, then they will make it legal for men to marry each other.
    First they will make it illegal to buy guns through the mail, then they will make you undergo a background check to buy one.
    First they will provide heath care for the elderly, then they will force individuals to buy health insurance or pay a fine.
    First they will set standards for employer provided health care, then they will force churches to provide abortion drugs.
    Yah—I know.
    Crazy talk.

  205. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Oldest Daughter personally thought of, planned out, organized, and tonight executed a plan to have certain famiy/friends come over tonight to clean the entire house while I took Mrs. Darren out.

    Blessing!!!

  206. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Oldest Daughter personally thought of, planned out, organized, and tonight executed a plan to have certain famiy/friends come over tonight to clean the entire house while I took Mrs. Darren out.
    Blessing!!!

  207. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #107 Darren!

    How ya been? I’ve been noticing poor attendance on your part o’ the Couch lately! Everything going OK on the home front? Seems like the last we heard from you might have been a late-night video date with your wife…

  208. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #107 Darren!
    How ya been? I’ve been noticing poor attendance on your part o’ the Couch lately! Everything going OK on the home front? Seems like the last we heard from you might have been a late-night video date with your wife…

  209. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    And what does HCI have to do with any of those things? They’re a bunch of Hollywood elite that have tried unsuccessfully for decades to take away our 2nd amendment rights. Thanks to a few Establishment-appointed SC justices your always frothing at the mouth about, any meager gains they’ve made have been reversed in recent years. It takes eternal vigilance but thinking you see woolyboogers under every rock is what gives us four more years of Barry.

    But whatever you say, Sarge.

  210. Hamous Avatar

    And what does HCI have to do with any of those things? They’re a bunch of Hollywood elite that have tried unsuccessfully for decades to take away our 2nd amendment rights. Thanks to a few Establishment-appointed SC justices your always frothing at the mouth about, any meager gains they’ve made have been reversed in recent years. It takes eternal vigilance but thinking you see woolyboogers under every rock is what gives us four more years of Barry.
    But whatever you say, Sarge.

  211. Southern Tragedy Avatar
    Southern Tragedy

    Ohhhhhh, I get it.

  212. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    Ohhhhhh, I get it.

  213. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    How ya been? I’ve been noticing poor attendance on your part o’ the Couch lately! Everything going OK on the home front? Seems like the last we heard from you might have been a late-night video date with your wife…

    Mharper.

    I’ve been good. Things have been busier than normal here but all is well. all in all I’m just chillin’ a bit from blogging. We got Breaking Dawn and it wasa lot better than I expected. I still watch it with the remote to fast foward the rather extensive sex scenes but overall a pretty good movie.

    Thansk for asking about me and mine.

  214. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    How ya been? I’ve been noticing poor attendance on your part o’ the Couch lately! Everything going OK on the home front? Seems like the last we heard from you might have been a late-night video date with your wife…

    Mharper.
    I’ve been good. Things have been busier than normal here but all is well. all in all I’m just chillin’ a bit from blogging. We got Breaking Dawn and it wasa lot better than I expected. I still watch it with the remote to fast foward the rather extensive sex scenes but overall a pretty good movie.
    Thansk for asking about me and mine.

  215. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Shamaal #100;

    First they came for the toilets;

    then they came for the lightbulbs …………….

    With the EPA running the show, you’re not too off.

  216. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Shamaal #100;

    First they came for the toilets;
    then they came for the lightbulbs …………….

    With the EPA running the show, you’re not too off.

  217. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Texpat #52;

    That’s very happy news!

    Congratulazioni a tutti e due!

    Babies rule!!!

  218. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Texpat #52;
    That’s very happy news!
    Congratulazioni a tutti e due!
    Babies rule!!!

  219. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    And a belated happy birthday to Super Dave and Sarge.

    And Sarge, may your purchases of guns and medals go well for you.

  220. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    And a belated happy birthday to Super Dave and Sarge.
    And Sarge, may your purchases of guns and medals go well for you.

  221. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Just in case this vital news didn’t get posted tonight here. (From Hot Air)

    Finally putting some questions to rest, the smart folk over at Centives calculated how much iron it would take to build the planet-destroying space station and even figured out how long it would take to build.

    Here’s the reality-check breakdown:
    •Based on the density of a modern warship and scaled up, it would take about 1 quadrillion tons of steel to build one Death Star.

    •The Earth’s iron supply is capable of building 2 billion Death Stars.

    •It would take 833,315 years to produce enough steel to start work on a Death Star, meaning you’ll be long dead before you’ll ever see it anywhere near operational.

    It would cost $852 quadrillion dollars to build a real Death Star

  222. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Just in case this vital news didn’t get posted tonight here. (From Hot Air)

    Finally putting some questions to rest, the smart folk over at Centives calculated how much iron it would take to build the planet-destroying space station and even figured out how long it would take to build.
    Here’s the reality-check breakdown:
    •Based on the density of a modern warship and scaled up, it would take about 1 quadrillion tons of steel to build one Death Star.
    •The Earth’s iron supply is capable of building 2 billion Death Stars.
    •It would take 833,315 years to produce enough steel to start work on a Death Star, meaning you’ll be long dead before you’ll ever see it anywhere near operational.

    It would cost $852 quadrillion dollars to build a real Death Star

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