Hambone v3.0

Friday Evolutionary Creation Open Comments

In 2007, the University of Kentucky passed over a candidate for director of its observatory and hired a much less qualified applicant. According to emails and other evidence gathered in the resulting lawsuit, the reason he was passed over was his religious views. You see, C. Martin Gaskell is a Christian. Not only that, but one who happens to believe that God created the heavens and the earth.
I know, huh!?!
Before you start taking sides one way or the other, Mr. Gaskell’s views are actually pretty mainstream (at least for non-academics). His view of Creation does not conflict in any meaningful way with either Biblical accounts or standard evolutionary theory. In short it essentially holds that God created the Universe through some means we don’t understand and set in motion events that lead us to the present. He expounds on his views in some detail in an essay on this topic that he wrote as a synopsis to a talk he is regularly asked to give.

The main controversy has been between people at the two extremes (young earth creationists and humanistic evolutionists). “Creationists” attack the science of “evolutionists”. I believe that this sort of attack is very bad both scientifically and theologically. The “scientific” explanations offered by “creationists” are mostly very poor science and I believe this sort of thing actually hinders some (many?) scientists becoming Christians. It is true that there are significant scientific problems in evolutionary theory (a good thing or else many biologists and geologists would be out of a job) and that these problems are bigger than is usually made out in introductory geology/biology courses, but the real problem with humanistic evolution is in the unwarranted atheistic assumptions and extrapolations. It is the latter that “creationists” should really be attacking (many books do, in fact, attack these unwarranted assumptions and extrapolations).

This is exactly the way I envision things. As to what was before the Big Bang, beats me. I figure that I’ll find out from God one day.

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159 responses to “Friday Evolutionary Creation Open Comments”

  1. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    Given the political atmosphere which now blurs the lines between science and politics (and religion as well I suppose), it’s doubtful that we mortals will ever discover the answer to that question. However, I think I would rather believe there is a Creator and find out later that there wasn’t rather than believe there isn’t and then find out there is.

    If people were introduced to just a little basic knowledge of physics (in spite of the Democrat congress intent to repeal the laws of physics), then there would be a lot less interest in falling for all the hoaxes and scams merely designed to gather government research funds to support someone else’s pet cause. I suppose that by just keeping the school children ignorant about physics (and everything else except about how they “feel” about something) is the next best thing to repealing the laws of physics.

    I still like to watch old 1950’s sci-fi flicks, many of which came about at the beginning of the “atomic” age. Since most people knew nothing about “splitting the atom” the scripts could go anywhere creating all kinds of weird, scary scenarios. What’s interesting today is that the scripts being belched out by our politicians (particularly Algore, etc.) follow those 1950’s models very closely – only the subject matter has been changed.

    How about this idea – leave the scientific research to the real scientists, leave the religious interpretations to the theologians, and have the government leave me alone to make up my own mind. Think that would work?

  2. El Gordo Avatar
    El Gordo

    Given the political atmosphere which now blurs the lines between science and politics (and religion as well I suppose), it’s doubtful that we mortals will ever discover the answer to that question. However, I think I would rather believe there is a Creator and find out later that there wasn’t rather than believe there isn’t and then find out there is.
    If people were introduced to just a little basic knowledge of physics (in spite of the Democrat congress intent to repeal the laws of physics), then there would be a lot less interest in falling for all the hoaxes and scams merely designed to gather government research funds to support someone else’s pet cause. I suppose that by just keeping the school children ignorant about physics (and everything else except about how they “feel” about something) is the next best thing to repealing the laws of physics.
    I still like to watch old 1950’s sci-fi flicks, many of which came about at the beginning of the “atomic” age. Since most people knew nothing about “splitting the atom” the scripts could go anywhere creating all kinds of weird, scary scenarios. What’s interesting today is that the scripts being belched out by our politicians (particularly Algore, etc.) follow those 1950’s models very closely – only the subject matter has been changed.
    How about this idea – leave the scientific research to the real scientists, leave the religious interpretations to the theologians, and have the government leave me alone to make up my own mind. Think that would work?

  3. Southern Tragedy Avatar
    Southern Tragedy

    I know, huh!?!

    That’s funny right there.

  4. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    I know, huh!?!

    That’s funny right there.

  5. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    Don’t you just love it when the scammers get scammed by their own scam?

    The European Commission, the Brussels-based regulator, is scheduled to discuss new security measures today with the bloc’s 27 national governments. It halted most operations at Europe’s 30 registries for greenhouse-gas emissions on Jan. 19 after a Czech trader reviewing his $9 million account found “nothing was there.” The EU estimates permits worth about 29 million euros ($38 million) are missing.

  6. Hamous Avatar
    Hamous

    Don’t you just love it when the scammers get scammed by their own scam?

    The European Commission, the Brussels-based regulator, is scheduled to discuss new security measures today with the bloc’s 27 national governments. It halted most operations at Europe’s 30 registries for greenhouse-gas emissions on Jan. 19 after a Czech trader reviewing his $9 million account found “nothing was there.” The EU estimates permits worth about 29 million euros ($38 million) are missing.

  7. Hamous Avatar
    Hamous

    The sun, moon and stars were put in their place(s) and ordered to be our timepieces on the 4th day of creation. Therefore, our current concept of time prior to that event/process is meaningless as the timepieces were not yet in place.

    Gen 1:14-19

    14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
    NASU

    Our concept of time is not the same as Y_VH concept of time:

    2 Peter 3:8-9

    8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9
    NASU

    The word for mankind and Adam is the same in Hebrew, the original language of the 1st (Old Testament) and it is spelled in the English transliteration Aleph Dalet Mem. Mankind was created on the 6th day, Adam and Eve were created after that.

    Gen 1:24-31

    24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so. 25 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

    26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, ” Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so. 31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
    NASU

    Adam and Eve were created after the 6th day and not on the 7th day as that was the first Sabbath. Sometime after the 7th day, let us presume it was on the 8th day as it would accurately signify a “new beginning”.

    Gen 2:7-9
    7 Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. 8 The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. 9 Out of the ground the Lord God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
    NASU

    Try to put our current concepts of time on the shelf for a moment; HE created the universe and all that is in it and then HE rested. After a period of time, and we really don’t know how long that was, HE created Adam and Eve. When HE created Adam and Eve, IMHO, is a reasonable timeframe to start evaluating time in the more current concept. In His time, according to The Scriptures, the month begins and ends at the dark of the moon, just as the day begins and ends at sunset.

    When you look at the creation/evolution thing like this they don’t conflict so much.

  8. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    The sun, moon and stars were put in their place(s) and ordered to be our timepieces on the 4th day of creation. Therefore, our current concept of time prior to that event/process is meaningless as the timepieces were not yet in place.

    Gen 1:14-19
    14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.
    NASU

    Our concept of time is not the same as Y_VH concept of time:

    2 Peter 3:8-9
    8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9
    NASU

    The word for mankind and Adam is the same in Hebrew, the original language of the 1st (Old Testament) and it is spelled in the English transliteration Aleph Dalet Mem. Mankind was created on the 6th day, Adam and Eve were created after that.

    Gen 1:24-31
    24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so. 25 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.
    26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, ” Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so. 31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
    NASU

    Adam and Eve were created after the 6th day and not on the 7th day as that was the first Sabbath. Sometime after the 7th day, let us presume it was on the 8th day as it would accurately signify a “new beginning”.

    Gen 2:7-9
    7 Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. 8 The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. 9 Out of the ground the Lord God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
    NASU

    Try to put our current concepts of time on the shelf for a moment; HE created the universe and all that is in it and then HE rested. After a period of time, and we really don’t know how long that was, HE created Adam and Eve. When HE created Adam and Eve, IMHO, is a reasonable timeframe to start evaluating time in the more current concept. In His time, according to The Scriptures, the month begins and ends at the dark of the moon, just as the day begins and ends at sunset.
    When you look at the creation/evolution thing like this they don’t conflict so much.

  9. Dooood Avatar
    Dooood

    Hamous

    I’ll have to find it, but there was an article in the Euro press yesterday about the AGW climate promoters at East Anglia in the UK receiving very convincing and sophisticated invitations to appear and speak for various organizations.

    They were completely bogus and the poor things were distraught over being the targets of such distasteful hoaxes.

    Yes, it brought tears to my eyes……from laughing so hard.

  10. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    Hamous
    I’ll have to find it, but there was an article in the Euro press yesterday about the AGW climate promoters at East Anglia in the UK receiving very convincing and sophisticated invitations to appear and speak for various organizations.
    They were completely bogus and the poor things were distraught over being the targets of such distasteful hoaxes.
    Yes, it brought tears to my eyes……from laughing so hard.

  11. Hamous Avatar
    Hamous

    Oh, and a hearty Erev Shabbat Shalom to all Y’all! Today is preparation day (erev: or evening before or day before) so y’all get everything ready today so you don’t have to do anything tomorrow and you can spend it in worship and rest.

  12. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    Oh, and a hearty Erev Shabbat Shalom to all Y’all! Today is preparation day (erev: or evening before or day before) so y’all get everything ready today so you don’t have to do anything tomorrow and you can spend it in worship and rest.

  13. Dooood Avatar
    Dooood

    I find it just a little ridiculous when the atheistic Big Bang Gang makes fun of the young earth creationists.

    How is it any less absurd than the Genesis literalists to stand up and say,”Hey, once there was nothing and than all the sudden there was a big bang and then there was everything.”

    It sounds like something a four year old would say.

    I am also a Big Bang skepticist, but then so are many others.

    In their view of the universe the complexities of an inflating universe after a Big Bang are replaced by a universe that was already large. flat, and uniform with dark energy as the effect of the other universe constantly leaking gravity into our own and driving its acceleration. According to this theory, the Big Bang was not the beginning of time but the bridge to a past filled with endlessly repeating cycles of evolution, each accompanied by the creation of new matter and the formation of new galaxies, stars, and planets.

    And if this guy is right, it will turn the whole project on its head:

    In Reinventing Gravity, Moffat tells the history of the discovery of gravity, and the development of gravity theory over the decades. He describes the current search for alternative gravity theories and the search for dark matter, explains dark energy, and tells the story of the development of Modified Gravity Theory and what the MOG universe looks and acts like in plain language. He describes predictions of his gravity theory that can be verified or falsified through experiments or observations – which is counter to the current trend in physics in fields such as string theory and quantum gravity, where no experimental or observational tests of the theories are possible. Learning about Moffat’s new gravity theory is fascinating, and the book is additionally interesting because telling the story of physics over time demonstrates how close-minded the physics establishment has become! How large amounts of funding can drive research into dead ends, and how even physicists can come to believe ideas that not based on experimental data at all, but based on beliefs generated by repeated exposure to theories over decades – without proof. What kind of science has physics become?!

    Link to article here.

  14. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    I find it just a little ridiculous when the atheistic Big Bang Gang makes fun of the young earth creationists.
    How is it any less absurd than the Genesis literalists to stand up and say,”Hey, once there was nothing and than all the sudden there was a big bang and then there was everything.”
    It sounds like something a four year old would say.
    I am also a Big Bang skepticist, but then so are many others.

    In their view of the universe the complexities of an inflating universe after a Big Bang are replaced by a universe that was already large. flat, and uniform with dark energy as the effect of the other universe constantly leaking gravity into our own and driving its acceleration. According to this theory, the Big Bang was not the beginning of time but the bridge to a past filled with endlessly repeating cycles of evolution, each accompanied by the creation of new matter and the formation of new galaxies, stars, and planets.

    And if this guy is right, it will turn the whole project on its head:

    In Reinventing Gravity, Moffat tells the history of the discovery of gravity, and the development of gravity theory over the decades. He describes the current search for alternative gravity theories and the search for dark matter, explains dark energy, and tells the story of the development of Modified Gravity Theory and what the MOG universe looks and acts like in plain language. He describes predictions of his gravity theory that can be verified or falsified through experiments or observations – which is counter to the current trend in physics in fields such as string theory and quantum gravity, where no experimental or observational tests of the theories are possible. Learning about Moffat’s new gravity theory is fascinating, and the book is additionally interesting because telling the story of physics over time demonstrates how close-minded the physics establishment has become! How large amounts of funding can drive research into dead ends, and how even physicists can come to believe ideas that not based on experimental data at all, but based on beliefs generated by repeated exposure to theories over decades – without proof. What kind of science has physics become?!

    Link to article here.

  15. Hamous Avatar
    Hamous

    This and this make waterfalls of crocodile tears fall from my eyes :>)
    Dubai’s “world island” project is sinking into the sea and their real estate market is so bad that they may knock down newly constructed buildings due to overcapacity. In the city center the vacancy rate for office space is 38+% and outside the city center it is over 50%. Is it possible that this is another example of having more money than sense? Not to be forgotten, Dubai is now insolvent due to over-extension during boom and no reserves to weather the bust.

  16. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    This and this make waterfalls of crocodile tears fall from my eyes :>)
    Dubai’s “world island” project is sinking into the sea and their real estate market is so bad that they may knock down newly constructed buildings due to overcapacity. In the city center the vacancy rate for office space is 38+% and outside the city center it is over 50%. Is it possible that this is another example of having more money than sense? Not to be forgotten, Dubai is now insolvent due to over-extension during boom and no reserves to weather the bust.

  17. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    G’Morning all

    1 El Gordo

    How about this idea – leave the scientific research to the real scientists, leave the religious interpretations to the theologians, and have the government leave me alone to make up my own mind. Think that would work?

    4 Bonecrusher

    When you look at the creation/evolution thing like this they don’t conflict so much.

    Like y’all, I have no problem with creation and evolution. If you notice, the 5000 year old writings in Genisis follow evolution to a tee. “without form and void”, “created light”, “created a dome (atmosphere)”, “created the land”, “produced (basic) life”‘…….and finally, way down the list, “created humans”.

    My minister of my 20+ early years (from baptism to marriage) summed it up very well. “If you want to know how you got here, ask a scientist. If you want to know why you got here, ask God.”

  18. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    G’Morning all
    1 El Gordo

    How about this idea – leave the scientific research to the real scientists, leave the religious interpretations to the theologians, and have the government leave me alone to make up my own mind. Think that would work?

    4 Bonecrusher

    When you look at the creation/evolution thing like this they don’t conflict so much.

    Like y’all, I have no problem with creation and evolution. If you notice, the 5000 year old writings in Genisis follow evolution to a tee. “without form and void”, “created light”, “created a dome (atmosphere)”, “created the land”, “produced (basic) life”‘…….and finally, way down the list, “created humans”.
    My minister of my 20+ early years (from baptism to marriage) summed it up very well. “If you want to know how you got here, ask a scientist. If you want to know why you got here, ask God.”

  19. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    BTW,
    There’s a big controversy on when life begins

    In Jewish tradition the fetus is not considered viable until after it graduates from medical school.

  20. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    BTW,
    There’s a big controversy on when life begins
    In Jewish tradition the fetus is not considered viable until after it graduates from medical school.

  21. Hamous Avatar
    Hamous

    #9 Geezer: One of the main points I hoped to illustrate in my post above is that the creation of mankind and the creation of Adam were two separate and distinct events.

  22. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #9 Geezer: One of the main points I hoped to illustrate in my post above is that the creation of mankind and the creation of Adam were two separate and distinct events.

  23. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    Boney- Agreed

  24. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    Boney- Agreed

  25. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    Speaking of Darwinism……..

    Remember the lady that was put on YouTube texting and tripping in the fountain a few days ago and then filing a lawsuit?

    I would like to nominate her for a Darwin Award.

    “In the hours that followed Cathy Cruz Marrero’s appearance on ‘Good Morning America’ today to talk about the fall and its aftermath, she was in court for a status hearing on charges of five felony counts, including theft by deception and receiving stolen property,” reports ABC News.

    Turns out Marrero’s been out on $7,500 bail since 2009, after being charged with running up more than $5,000 in purchases on a co-worker’s credit card. No wonder she had a lawyer handy.

    http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/01/20/5885523-texting-fountain-ladys-problems-bigger-than-youtube-fame?GT1=43001

  26. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    Speaking of Darwinism……..
    Remember the lady that was put on YouTube texting and tripping in the fountain a few days ago and then filing a lawsuit?
    I would like to nominate her for a Darwin Award.

    “In the hours that followed Cathy Cruz Marrero’s appearance on ‘Good Morning America’ today to talk about the fall and its aftermath, she was in court for a status hearing on charges of five felony counts, including theft by deception and receiving stolen property,” reports ABC News.
    Turns out Marrero’s been out on $7,500 bail since 2009, after being charged with running up more than $5,000 in purchases on a co-worker’s credit card. No wonder she had a lawyer handy.

    http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/01/20/5885523-texting-fountain-ladys-problems-bigger-than-youtube-fame?GT1=43001

  27. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    I noticed that the Obama and Hu Jintao news conference audio feed and translation relays had dozens of electronic glitches.

    It was embarrassing when halfway through the news conference both China and the U.S. had to call India for technical support.

  28. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    I noticed that the Obama and Hu Jintao news conference audio feed and translation relays had dozens of electronic glitches.
    It was embarrassing when halfway through the news conference both China and the U.S. had to call India for technical support.

  29. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    Speaking of God………..

    A boy writes a letter to God. “Dear God, why do you let bad things happen in our schools?” God replied ” Dear Son, I’m not allowed in your schools.”

  30. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    Speaking of God………..
    A boy writes a letter to God. “Dear God, why do you let bad things happen in our schools?” God replied ” Dear Son, I’m not allowed in your schools.”

  31. Katfish Avatar
    Katfish

    #13 otl

    I would like to nominate her for a Darwin Award.

    She’s not eligible.

    To be a candidate for the award, the person must be removed from the gene pool. While her looks and intellect had essentially removed her from the gene pool already, devices could be employed to allow her to actually reproduce (e.g., paper bags).

    n.b. Generally, Darwin awards are given posthumously, but there are rare occasions where the recipient was rendered incapable of reproduction while remaining alive.

  32. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    #13 otl

    I would like to nominate her for a Darwin Award.

    She’s not eligible.
    To be a candidate for the award, the person must be removed from the gene pool. While her looks and intellect had essentially removed her from the gene pool already, devices could be employed to allow her to actually reproduce (e.g., paper bags).
    n.b. Generally, Darwin awards are given posthumously, but there are rare occasions where the recipient was rendered incapable of reproduction while remaining alive.

  33. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    Speaking of creating life………right here in the greater Houston area…………

    The men could not believe what they were seeing. At first they thought it was two bucks fighting each other as they came through the brush. The deer finally stopped to rest and stuck their heads out, one on each side of a cedar. Bill had his 7mm magnum with him, saw it was at least a 10 point buck, and took a shot at it. Meanwhile, Steve Jr. shot the 8 point looking out of the other side of the cedar with his .270. The bucks ran about 20 yards and collapsed into a mesquite tree. The men walked up and could not believe what they were looking at. For the first time these two experienced hunters were speechless. What they saw was a two headed deer. The deer had 11 points on one head and 8 points on the other head, at the opposite end of the deer. They took the unusual deer to the game wardens and they too were dumbfounded by what they saw. Biologists were notified and they too were
    astounded by this strange animal. The state experts finally announced that the scientific name of this animal is Odocoileus virginianus with the condition of bicephaly.

    http://seabreezenews.com/issue/Page_01c.pdf

  34. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    Speaking of creating life………right here in the greater Houston area…………

    The men could not believe what they were seeing. At first they thought it was two bucks fighting each other as they came through the brush. The deer finally stopped to rest and stuck their heads out, one on each side of a cedar. Bill had his 7mm magnum with him, saw it was at least a 10 point buck, and took a shot at it. Meanwhile, Steve Jr. shot the 8 point looking out of the other side of the cedar with his .270. The bucks ran about 20 yards and collapsed into a mesquite tree. The men walked up and could not believe what they were looking at. For the first time these two experienced hunters were speechless. What they saw was a two headed deer. The deer had 11 points on one head and 8 points on the other head, at the opposite end of the deer. They took the unusual deer to the game wardens and they too were dumbfounded by what they saw. Biologists were notified and they too were
    astounded by this strange animal. The state experts finally announced that the scientific name of this animal is Odocoileus virginianus with the condition of bicephaly.

    http://seabreezenews.com/issue/Page_01c.pdf

  35. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    And speaking of deer hunting……..
    Nothing to this deer hunting thing. Just go to your stand and wait til the deer comes in to eat.

    http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/attachment.php?s=7e0200698dab9c088d487e6552d75459&attachmentid=351064&d=1294928127

  36. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    And speaking of deer hunting……..
    Nothing to this deer hunting thing. Just go to your stand and wait til the deer comes in to eat.
    http://2coolfishing.com/ttmbforum/attachment.php?s=7e0200698dab9c088d487e6552d75459&attachmentid=351064&d=1294928127

  37. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    And finally, remember when I forecast Obama Foe as a new talking point a while back?

    Obama foes target health overhaul in test vote
    By Agence France-Presse
    Friday, January 7th, 2011 — 12:04 pm

    US President Barack Obama’s fired-up Republican foes flexed their newfound political muscle on Friday, targeting his signature health care overhaul with a wholly symbolic repeal test vote.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/obama-foes-target-health-overhaul-test-vote/

    I thought it didn’t get any traction as I didn’t see Obama Foe pop up anywhere. I was wrong. Today’s version

    Obama foes win symbolic health law repeal vote
    AFP

    by Olivier Knox Olivier Knox – Thu Jan 20, 12:00 am ET

    WASHINGTON (AFP) – President Barack Obama’s Republican foes muscled a symbolic bill calling for the repeal of his historic overhaul of US health care
    to passage in the divided House of Representatives on Thursday.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110120/ts_alt_afp/uspoliticscongress

  38. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    And finally, remember when I forecast Obama Foe as a new talking point a while back?

    Obama foes target health overhaul in test vote
    By Agence France-Presse
    Friday, January 7th, 2011 — 12:04 pm
    US President Barack Obama’s fired-up Republican foes flexed their newfound political muscle on Friday, targeting his signature health care overhaul with a wholly symbolic repeal test vote.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/obama-foes-target-health-overhaul-test-vote/
    I thought it didn’t get any traction as I didn’t see Obama Foe pop up anywhere. I was wrong. Today’s version

    Obama foes win symbolic health law repeal vote
    AFP
    by Olivier Knox Olivier Knox – Thu Jan 20, 12:00 am ET
    WASHINGTON (AFP) – President Barack Obama’s Republican foes muscled a symbolic bill calling for the repeal of his historic overhaul of US health care
    to passage in the divided House of Representatives on Thursday.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110120/ts_alt_afp/uspoliticscongress

  39. Hamous Avatar
    Hamous

    #19 Geezer: How symbolic will it be when a few D’s in the cat house (senate) vote to bring the measure up for a vote? When it passes there will they still call it “symbolic”?

  40. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #19 Geezer: How symbolic will it be when a few D’s in the cat house (senate) vote to bring the measure up for a vote? When it passes there will they still call it “symbolic”?

  41. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    #7 Texpat, theories regarding the origin of the cosmos have entirely nothing to do with evolutionary biology. They are two completely different fields of scientific study.

    I find it just a little ridiculous when the atheistic Big Bang Gang makes fun of the young earth creationists.

    I have no desire debate young earth creationists regarding the validity of their theories beliefs. It is a complete waste of my time. However, sometimes it’s hard not to chuckle at the more absurd ones.

    I do vocally criticize them when they insist that their faith held and unchanging beliefs are in any way equivalent to science and should be taught in public high school biology classes. Personally I don’t care if someone beliefs that the FSM extended a noodly appendage and created life. Just don’t call it science and we’ll get on just fine.

    How is it any less absurd than the Genesis literalists to stand up and say,”Hey, once there was nothing and than all the sudden there was a big bang and then there was everything.”

    The big bang theory is just one of many under continuing study, debate, discovery and revision. String theory and multiverse are two pretty interesting theories as well.

  42. bob42 Avatar
    bob42

    #7 Texpat, theories regarding the origin of the cosmos have entirely nothing to do with evolutionary biology. They are two completely different fields of scientific study.

    I find it just a little ridiculous when the atheistic Big Bang Gang makes fun of the young earth creationists.

    I have no desire debate young earth creationists regarding the validity of their theories beliefs. It is a complete waste of my time. However, sometimes it’s hard not to chuckle at the more absurd ones.
    I do vocally criticize them when they insist that their faith held and unchanging beliefs are in any way equivalent to science and should be taught in public high school biology classes. Personally I don’t care if someone beliefs that the FSM extended a noodly appendage and created life. Just don’t call it science and we’ll get on just fine.

    How is it any less absurd than the Genesis literalists to stand up and say,”Hey, once there was nothing and than all the sudden there was a big bang and then there was everything.”

    The big bang theory is just one of many under continuing study, debate, discovery and revision. String theory and multiverse are two pretty interesting theories as well.

  43. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    I’ve done substantial amounts of reading on the various theories regarding the origins of the cosmos, and have developed my own unified theory of the universe(s).

    It’s called…
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Wait for it…
    .
    .
    .
    The Big Bong Theory.

  44. bob42 Avatar
    bob42

    I’ve done substantial amounts of reading on the various theories regarding the origins of the cosmos, and have developed my own unified theory of the universe(s).
    It’s called…
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Wait for it…
    .
    .
    .
    The Big Bong Theory.

  45. Katfish Avatar
    Katfish

    The big bang theory is just one of many under continuing study, debate, discovery and revision. String theory and multiverse are two pretty interesting theories as well.

    None of which address the Prime Cause.

  46. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    The big bang theory is just one of many under continuing study, debate, discovery and revision. String theory and multiverse are two pretty interesting theories as well.

    None of which address the Prime Cause.

  47. Hamous Avatar
    Hamous

    #21 Bob420: If Evolution is just a theory, and Intelligent Design is just a theory, why is it that anyone who teaches Intelligent Design essentially commits career suicide? The left wing libterdnozzles that have dominated with an iron fist our educational institutions for the last 50 years can not have their chosen view challenged. I mean, after all, they are the tolerant ones therefore anything that disagrees with what they choose to believe at the moment must be squashed and is considered intolerant.

  48. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #21 Bob420: If Evolution is just a theory, and Intelligent Design is just a theory, why is it that anyone who teaches Intelligent Design essentially commits career suicide? The left wing libterdnozzles that have dominated with an iron fist our educational institutions for the last 50 years can not have their chosen view challenged. I mean, after all, they are the tolerant ones therefore anything that disagrees with what they choose to believe at the moment must be squashed and is considered intolerant.

  49. Dooood Avatar
    Dooood

    Texpat, theories regarding the origin of the cosmos have entirely nothing to do with evolutionary biology. They are two completely different fields of scientific study.

    No kidding ?! And all this time I thought they were exactly the same thing !

    Temporarily suspending sarcasm, my point still stands even though it sailed over your head.

  50. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    Texpat, theories regarding the origin of the cosmos have entirely nothing to do with evolutionary biology. They are two completely different fields of scientific study.

    No kidding ?! And all this time I thought they were exactly the same thing !
    Temporarily suspending sarcasm, my point still stands even though it sailed over your head.

  51. Dooood Avatar
    Dooood

    #17 Oletimer

    When I was a young 14 year old cowboy working summers on a ranch in Austin County, I used to saddle up and ride on a place of about 12,000 acres outside of Cat Spring in the early evenings when it had cooled down. One day riding through a ravine, my friend and I came upon a complete deer skeleton with 2 heads. We were so far back in the dense post oak breaks, we decided to try to come back in the jeep later to retrieve the skeleton. Trying to tie it off on a saddle and bring it out on horseback would have destroyed it. Anyway, we never did go back.

  52. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    #17 Oletimer
    When I was a young 14 year old cowboy working summers on a ranch in Austin County, I used to saddle up and ride on a place of about 12,000 acres outside of Cat Spring in the early evenings when it had cooled down. One day riding through a ravine, my friend and I came upon a complete deer skeleton with 2 heads. We were so far back in the dense post oak breaks, we decided to try to come back in the jeep later to retrieve the skeleton. Trying to tie it off on a saddle and bring it out on horseback would have destroyed it. Anyway, we never did go back.

  53. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    #25 I understood you.

    No kidding ?! And all this time I thought they were exactly the same thing !

    The young earthers insist the are. Their typical argument is to find a flaw in the big bang theory, and conclude that it disproves evolution. That’s why I don’t waste my time with them.

  54. bob42 Avatar
    bob42

    #25 I understood you.

    No kidding ?! And all this time I thought they were exactly the same thing !

    The young earthers insist the are. Their typical argument is to find a flaw in the big bang theory, and conclude that it disproves evolution. That’s why I don’t waste my time with them.

  55. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    And some have been making fun of me for getting my news and information to form my opinions from Coast to Coast.

  56. El Gordo Avatar
    El Gordo

    And some have been making fun of me for getting my news and information to form my opinions from Coast to Coast.

  57. Hamous Avatar
    Hamous

    Lebanon is in crisis (still). The Druse leader said that he is under intense pressure (which a reasonable mind can read as credible death threats) to back a Hizbullah candidate. More details here in the Jerusalem Post.

    He told members of his party that insisting on Hariri as the country’s new prime minister would lead to “catastrophic consequences” for the security of the Druse party, himself, and the Druse population in Hizbullah-controlled areas. He added that things “have become greater than him and his ability to maintain the middle ground in a harsh battle in which Hariri’s regional and international backers only resort to statements, while his opponents (Hizbullah) turn to all manners of military and popular pressure,” according to the report.

    Jumblatt said that he is under pressure to name former Lebanese prime minister Omar Karami in place of Hariri.

    Lebanon is enduring a serious political crisis over a UN tribunal investigating the assassination of former Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri. Many fear Hizbullah will react violently if its members are named in the court’s indictments, which is widely expected.

    the Druse leader is trying to appease the murderous thugocracy of Hizbullah by voting for them so, maybe, they will let he and his people live. Hizbullah is an enemy to civilization and sanity.

  58. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    Lebanon is in crisis (still). The Druse leader said that he is under intense pressure (which a reasonable mind can read as credible death threats) to back a Hizbullah candidate. More details here in the Jerusalem Post.

    He told members of his party that insisting on Hariri as the country’s new prime minister would lead to “catastrophic consequences” for the security of the Druse party, himself, and the Druse population in Hizbullah-controlled areas. He added that things “have become greater than him and his ability to maintain the middle ground in a harsh battle in which Hariri’s regional and international backers only resort to statements, while his opponents (Hizbullah) turn to all manners of military and popular pressure,” according to the report.
    Jumblatt said that he is under pressure to name former Lebanese prime minister Omar Karami in place of Hariri.
    Lebanon is enduring a serious political crisis over a UN tribunal investigating the assassination of former Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri. Many fear Hizbullah will react violently if its members are named in the court’s indictments, which is widely expected.

    the Druse leader is trying to appease the murderous thugocracy of Hizbullah by voting for them so, maybe, they will let he and his people live. Hizbullah is an enemy to civilization and sanity.

  59. bob42 Avatar
    bob42

    This news makes my day. I’m really getting tired of Facebook suggesting my ex-wife as a friend.

    You can hide people from your Facebook News Feed, but that won’t stop Facebook from popping up elsewhere, constantly recommending that you view photos of your ex and his/her new flame. Here’s how to completely hide someone from Facebook.
    When Facebook first implemented some of its new recommendation features, a lot of people found their ex’s photo albums, profiles, and other updates ended up in that sidebar more often than not.

  60. texanadian Avatar
    texanadian

    TGIF y’all, speaking of Johnny Cash…

    Here’s a 15 year old street singer in Seattle

    http://www.katu.com/home/video/11944831.html?video=pop&t=a

    pretty darn good.

  61. texanadian Avatar
    texanadian

    TGIF y’all, speaking of Johnny Cash…
    Here’s a 15 year old street singer in Seattle
    http://www.katu.com/home/video/11944831.html?video=pop&t=a
    pretty darn good.

  62. Hamous Avatar
    Hamous

    And the left says conservatives have to watch their “incendiary speech”???? Listen to this libterdnozzle
    Caution: utter stupidity and foul sexual reference.

  63. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    And the left says conservatives have to watch their “incendiary speech”???? Listen to this libterdnozzle
    Caution: utter stupidity and foul sexual reference.

  64. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    32 Bonecrusher says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    And the left says conservatives have to watch their “incendiary speech”???? Listen to this libterdnozzle
    Caution: utter stupidity and foul sexual reference.

    It’s quite entertaining how some folk get their knickers knotted when people make fun of Palin while simultaneously broad brushing Liberals (and often moderate VMGers) as libterdnozzles.

  65. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    32 Bonecrusher says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:04 pm
    And the left says conservatives have to watch their “incendiary speech”???? Listen to this libterdnozzle
    Caution: utter stupidity and foul sexual reference.

    It’s quite entertaining how some folk get their knickers knotted when people make fun of Palin while simultaneously broad brushing Liberals (and often moderate VMGers) as libterdnozzles.

  66. Hamous Avatar
    Hamous

    #31 Texakanuk: That kid is going places. What a voice and it will only get better as he matures. The song he sung is what Mel Tillis wanted Preparation H to use as a theme song:>)

  67. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #31 Texakanuk: That kid is going places. What a voice and it will only get better as he matures. The song he sung is what Mel Tillis wanted Preparation H to use as a theme song:>)

  68. Hamous Avatar
    Hamous

    #33 Sarge: Would libcrapnozzle be less offensive?

  69. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #33 Sarge: Would libcrapnozzle be less offensive?

  70. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    35 Bonecrusher says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    #33 Sarge: Would libcrapnozzle be less offensive?

    Just be civil.

    And don’t say anything when folks attack Sara Palin and everything will be all right.

    See how easy it is?

    Just think of yourself as a welcome mat.

  71. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    35 Bonecrusher says:
    January 21, 2011 at 2:12 pm
    #33 Sarge: Would libcrapnozzle be less offensive?

    Just be civil.
    And don’t say anything when folks attack Sara Palin and everything will be all right.
    See how easy it is?
    Just think of yourself as a welcome mat.

  72. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    Lib-bagger?

  73. bob42 Avatar
    bob42

    Lib-bagger?

  74. Hamous Avatar
    Hamous

    From the Debka Files:

    Khamenei: No compromise on Iran’s nuclear program in multilateral talks • “We are making good progress… and even 100,000 (sanctions) resolutions won’t stop nuclear drive” •

    I think we should take them at their word and stop with the verbal negotiations/sanctions/empty threats. I have in mind an enormous glass parking lot.

  75. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    From the Debka Files:

    Khamenei: No compromise on Iran’s nuclear program in multilateral talks • “We are making good progress… and even 100,000 (sanctions) resolutions won’t stop nuclear drive” •

    I think we should take them at their word and stop with the verbal negotiations/sanctions/empty threats. I have in mind an enormous glass parking lot.

  76. Hamous Avatar
    Hamous

    #36 I have been called many things but a welcome mat is not one of them and I doubt that applies to you either. I suggest that we call them out vigorously each and every time there is an unfounded/uncivil attack on anybody on the correct/conservative side.
    NO PC CRAP FOR ME!

  77. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #36 I have been called many things but a welcome mat is not one of them and I doubt that applies to you either. I suggest that we call them out vigorously each and every time there is an unfounded/uncivil attack on anybody on the correct/conservative side.
    NO PC CRAP FOR ME!

  78. Katfish Avatar
    Katfish

    #38 bone
    Debka hasn’t been the most reliable in the past. Have you checked MEMRI, Ha’aretz, or the Jerusalem Post?

  79. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    #38 bone
    Debka hasn’t been the most reliable in the past. Have you checked MEMRI, Ha’aretz, or the Jerusalem Post?

  80. Katfish Avatar
    Katfish

    Keep your hands off my nuts!

  81. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    Keep your hands off my nuts!

  82. texanadian Avatar
    texanadian

    My experience, which is always pleasant when talking with libs, when they make comments about conservatives hating the poor, starving granny, Palin’s an idiot and the like is say, ” Really, give a factual example.” Needless to say the usually don’t have one and if they do my factual response to contrary causes the veins in their foreheads to bulge, their eyes bug out and drool drips from their mouths.
    These people operate on emotions and feel good. They cannot deal with facts or logical arguments. I pity the poor souls.
    Micheal Berry has been having a good time today razzing Congresswoman Lee and how she is going to get on tv. He can be amusing at times.

  83. texanadian Avatar
    texanadian

    My experience, which is always pleasant when talking with libs, when they make comments about conservatives hating the poor, starving granny, Palin’s an idiot and the like is say, ” Really, give a factual example.” Needless to say the usually don’t have one and if they do my factual response to contrary causes the veins in their foreheads to bulge, their eyes bug out and drool drips from their mouths.
    These people operate on emotions and feel good. They cannot deal with facts or logical arguments. I pity the poor souls.
    Micheal Berry has been having a good time today razzing Congresswoman Lee and how she is going to get on tv. He can be amusing at times.

  84. Katfish Avatar
    Katfish

    Hmmm…

    Zimbabwe must be a Chicago suburb.

  85. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    Hmmm…
    Zimbabwe must be a Chicago suburb.

  86. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    I think we should take them at their word and stop with the verbal negotiations/sanctions/empty threats. I have in mind an enormous glass parking lot.

    I am reminded of an Air Force General who was asked what our capabilities were regarding Ira or Iraq.

    “We can bomb them to glass, then tie fatback to our feet and skate on the surface.”

  87. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    I think we should take them at their word and stop with the verbal negotiations/sanctions/empty threats. I have in mind an enormous glass parking lot.

    I am reminded of an Air Force General who was asked what our capabilities were regarding Ira or Iraq.
    “We can bomb them to glass, then tie fatback to our feet and skate on the surface.”

  88. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    Ace asks a good question:

    Since we’re talking about how absolutist, hard-edged rhetoric can encourage murder, and suggest to the infirm or ruthless that their evils are permissible and even laudatory: Was Kermitt Gosnell encouraged by a “climate of hate” regarding unwanted babies?

    Seems like if the media wants to talk about rhetorical incitements to murder, they have a pretty good reason to do so here.

    But that’s a question they’ll never ask; they’re not even willing to restate the conclusions of the grand jury, which is that pro-abortion politics caused state officials to turn a blind eye to a horror in plain sight.

  89. Sarge Avatar
    Sarge

    Ace asks a good question:

    Since we’re talking about how absolutist, hard-edged rhetoric can encourage murder, and suggest to the infirm or ruthless that their evils are permissible and even laudatory: Was Kermitt Gosnell encouraged by a “climate of hate” regarding unwanted babies?
    Seems like if the media wants to talk about rhetorical incitements to murder, they have a pretty good reason to do so here.
    But that’s a question they’ll never ask; they’re not even willing to restate the conclusions of the grand jury, which is that pro-abortion politics caused state officials to turn a blind eye to a horror in plain sight.

  90. Hamous Avatar
    Hamous

    #44 Sarge:

    “We can bomb them to glass, then tie fatback to our feet and skate on the surface.”

    . . . . .works for me :>)

  91. Bonecrusher Avatar
    Bonecrusher

    #44 Sarge:

    “We can bomb them to glass, then tie fatback to our feet and skate on the surface.”

    . . . . .works for me :>)

  92. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    #17

    The deer had 11 points on one head and 8 points on the other head, at the opposite end of the deer.

    I’m sorry. I think this is BS.

    #26 texpat

    One day riding through a ravine, my friend and I came upon a complete deer skeleton with 2 heads.

    I have only one question, brother. Were the heads actually at opposite ends of the body?

    Harrumpphh.

  93. Shannon Avatar
    Shannon

    #17

    The deer had 11 points on one head and 8 points on the other head, at the opposite end of the deer.

    I’m sorry. I think this is BS.
    #26 texpat

    One day riding through a ravine, my friend and I came upon a complete deer skeleton with 2 heads.

    I have only one question, brother. Were the heads actually at opposite ends of the body?
    Harrumpphh.

  94. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    As to what was before the Big Bang, beats me.

    That would be the pre-Big-Bang, duh.

  95. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    As to what was before the Big Bang, beats me.

    That would be the pre-Big-Bang, duh.

  96. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Now would denying Mr. Gaskell as director of the observatory of te university of Kentucky mount to government, via the dinero that comes from government to the university using religion as a litmus test? I’m curious as to whom here wouldn’t be worried or worked up over that.

  97. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Now would denying Mr. Gaskell as director of the observatory of te university of Kentucky mount to government, via the dinero that comes from government to the university using religion as a litmus test? I’m curious as to whom here wouldn’t be worried or worked up over that.

  98. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Oletimer #10;

    LOL.

  99. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Oletimer #10;
    LOL.

  100. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    The deer had 11 points on one head and 8 points on the other head, at the opposite end of the deer.

    I know I’ve seen that second head somewhwere before.

  101. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    The deer had 11 points on one head and 8 points on the other head, at the opposite end of the deer.

    I know I’ve seen that second head somewhwere before.

  102. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    #41;

    Done! I didn’t know you’d take it so personal. 😯

  103. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    #41;
    Done! I didn’t know you’d take it so personal. 😯

  104. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Under Pressure From ACLU, Hawaii Senate Ends Daily Prayer

    American identity being lost. Expect our freedoms to follow.

  105. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Under Pressure From ACLU, Hawaii Senate Ends Daily Prayer
    American identity being lost. Expect our freedoms to follow.

  106. Tedtam Avatar
    Tedtam

    #51 Darren

    Did you mean “second” or “butt”?

  107. Tedtam Avatar
    Tedtam

    #51 Darren
    Did you mean “second” or “butt”?

  108. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Yes.

  109. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Yes.

  110. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Murkowski: I’m worried that Republicans are spending too much time on ObamaCare

    I’m worried that the majority vtoe fropm Alaska went to Murkowski.

  111. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Murkowski: I’m worried that Republicans are spending too much time on ObamaCare
    I’m worried that the majority vtoe fropm Alaska went to Murkowski.

  112. Southern Tragedy Avatar
    Southern Tragedy

    Paul Ryan will give State of the Union rebuttal.

    Very nice.

  113. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    Paul Ryan will give State of the Union rebuttal.
    Very nice.

  114. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #24 Bones

    Intelligent Design is just a theory

    Sorry, but Intelligent Design is not a theory. It is a belief. A theory is a scientific proposal that can be tested, although in some fields, as discussed in this thread, it can be difficult to devise suitable testing.

    A belief is not subject to scientific testing. A belief can be proven to be true, but it cannot be disproven. I do not believe in God, but if God were to appear before me in some indisputable fashion, I would have no option other than to say His existence was now proven to me. But there is no way in the universe for me to prove that God does not exist. Proofs, theories, testing, etc are in the domain of science, not religion.

  115. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #24 Bones

    Intelligent Design is just a theory

    Sorry, but Intelligent Design is not a theory. It is a belief. A theory is a scientific proposal that can be tested, although in some fields, as discussed in this thread, it can be difficult to devise suitable testing.
    A belief is not subject to scientific testing. A belief can be proven to be true, but it cannot be disproven. I do not believe in God, but if God were to appear before me in some indisputable fashion, I would have no option other than to say His existence was now proven to me. But there is no way in the universe for me to prove that God does not exist. Proofs, theories, testing, etc are in the domain of science, not religion.

  116. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #42 Tex-Can

    razzing Congresswoman Lee

    KSEV’s Sam Malone was doing a pretty good job of this too. They were placing bets on how fast SJL would show up at TIRR. Someone even bet that SJL would be at TIRR, wearing scrubs, to greet Gabby on her arrival from Arizona.

  117. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #42 Tex-Can

    razzing Congresswoman Lee

    KSEV’s Sam Malone was doing a pretty good job of this too. They were placing bets on how fast SJL would show up at TIRR. Someone even bet that SJL would be at TIRR, wearing scrubs, to greet Gabby on her arrival from Arizona.

  118. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #47 Shannon

    #17

    The deer had 11 points on one head and 8 points on the other head, at the opposite end of the deer.

    I’m sorry. I think this is BS.

    Shannon has a point. 🙂

    Two-headedness in vertebrates occurs when the front-end of the embryo cleaves partially. Even if an embryo could somehow cleave to form a head at each end, this pattern does not allow for any rear end, with the obvious implcations. IOW, not viable.

  119. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #47 Shannon

    #17
    The deer had 11 points on one head and 8 points on the other head, at the opposite end of the deer.

    I’m sorry. I think this is BS.

    Shannon has a point. 🙂
    Two-headedness in vertebrates occurs when the front-end of the embryo cleaves partially. Even if an embryo could somehow cleave to form a head at each end, this pattern does not allow for any rear end, with the obvious implcations. IOW, not viable.

  120. Tedtam Avatar
    Tedtam

    Mharper – here’s your proof!

    There IS a God, after all! 😀

  121. Tedtam Avatar
    Tedtam

    Mharper – here’s your proof!
    There IS a God, after all! 😀

  122. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #61 TT

    Well, since I don’t watch MSNBC anyway, that won’t affect me much. But in general, I agree it is a blessing. 8)

  123. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    #61 TT
    Well, since I don’t watch MSNBC anyway, that won’t affect me much. But in general, I agree it is a blessing. 8)

  124. bweldon Avatar
    bweldon

    “They” will find a home for him at CNN.

    Old liberal talk show people do not die they just change channels.

  125. squawkbox Avatar
    squawkbox

    “They” will find a home for him at CNN.
    Old liberal talk show people do not die they just change channels.

  126. Southern Tragedy Avatar
    Southern Tragedy

    #61

    What, no year long victory lap like Larry King and Oprah got? That’s just mean.

  127. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    #61
    What, no year long victory lap like Larry King and Oprah got? That’s just mean.

  128. Southern Tragedy Avatar
    Southern Tragedy

    He could give a boost to struggling CNN’s prime-time lineup, but Olbermann would mean CNN would make an abrupt shift in its nonpartisan policy.

    hahahahaha..cough cough..hahaha

  129. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    He could give a boost to struggling CNN’s prime-time lineup, but Olbermann would mean CNN would make an abrupt shift in its nonpartisan policy.

    hahahahaha..cough cough..hahaha

  130. Southern Tragedy Avatar
    Southern Tragedy

    7 minutes into the 10:00 news and still on the Congresswoman….geesh.

  131. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    7 minutes into the 10:00 news and still on the Congresswoman….geesh.

  132. Southern Tragedy Avatar
    Southern Tragedy

    There must have been a decoy ambulance, no SJL.

  133. GJT Avatar
    GJT

    There must have been a decoy ambulance, no SJL.

  134. Katfish Avatar
    Katfish

    She was already waiting for her at bedside since 8:00am.

  135. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    She was already waiting for her at bedside since 8:00am.

  136. phil Avatar
    phil

    The Many Sycophantic Nut-jobs Broadcasting Company lost one of its premier propagandists.—Boo Hoo.

    I’m sure the Blowberfishmann will find a new home on one of the other Goebbels News Networks.

  137. phil Avatar
    phil

    The Many Sycophantic Nut-jobs Broadcasting Company lost one of its premier propagandists.—Boo Hoo.
    I’m sure the Blowberfishmann will find a new home on one of the other Goebbels News Networks.

  138. phil Avatar
    phil

    70

    Whoopie

  139. phil Avatar
    phil

    70
    Whoopie

  140. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    #58 Mharper42, that was very well and quite nicely stated. As proven in Kitzmiller v. Dover, “Intelligent Design” is nothing more than religious creationism with a deceptive face lift. The defendants in that case were so dishonest, they were lucky the judge (a conservative republican Bush appointee) didn’t recommend perjury charges.

    That said, there is a place for the various scriptures in schools. For example, Shakespeare can not be fully appreciated without an understanding of how much influence religion, particularly state sanctioned/mandated religion had on people in the Bard of Avon’s day.

    It’s very suitable subject matter for philosophy, literature, history, and sociology curricula. But it’s not science, and certainly not a theory. As you mentioned, theories can and often are, dis-proven.

  141. bob42 Avatar
    bob42

    #58 Mharper42, that was very well and quite nicely stated. As proven in Kitzmiller v. Dover, “Intelligent Design” is nothing more than religious creationism with a deceptive face lift. The defendants in that case were so dishonest, they were lucky the judge (a conservative republican Bush appointee) didn’t recommend perjury charges.
    That said, there is a place for the various scriptures in schools. For example, Shakespeare can not be fully appreciated without an understanding of how much influence religion, particularly state sanctioned/mandated religion had on people in the Bard of Avon’s day.
    It’s very suitable subject matter for philosophy, literature, history, and sociology curricula. But it’s not science, and certainly not a theory. As you mentioned, theories can and often are, dis-proven.

  142. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    “Intelligent Design” is nothing more than religious creationism with a deceptive face lift.

    Yawwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnn. Wake me when bob says something original and factual.

  143. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    “Intelligent Design” is nothing more than religious creationism with a deceptive face lift.

    Yawwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnn. Wake me when bob says something original and factual.

  144. fat albert Avatar
    fat albert

    #58 & #71: the 42’s

    Sorry, but Intelligent Design is not a theory. It is a belief. A theory is a scientific proposal that can be tested

    If Intelligent Design is faith and not a theory, then exactly the same thing can be said of the
    “Big Bang Faith” and the “Faith of Evolution”. Neither can be either tested or proven.

    As far as the Kitzmiller v Dover case goes, the opinion of one judge does not make a fact. If it did then it would be a fact that OJ was innocent. Judge Jones opinion is valid only until another judge rules otherwise.

  145. fat albert Avatar
    fat albert

    #58 & #71: the 42’s

    Sorry, but Intelligent Design is not a theory. It is a belief. A theory is a scientific proposal that can be tested

    If Intelligent Design is faith and not a theory, then exactly the same thing can be said of the
    “Big Bang Faith” and the “Faith of Evolution”. Neither can be either tested or proven.
    As far as the Kitzmiller v Dover case goes, the opinion of one judge does not make a fact. If it did then it would be a fact that OJ was innocent. Judge Jones opinion is valid only until another judge rules otherwise.

  146. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    That said, there is a place for the various scriptures in schools. For example, Shakespeare can not be fully appreciated without an understanding of how much influence religion

    What about prayers to open a session in a state session?

    As you mentioned, theories can and often are, dis-proven.

    Unlike some people’s take on Christianity.

  147. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    That said, there is a place for the various scriptures in schools. For example, Shakespeare can not be fully appreciated without an understanding of how much influence religion

    What about prayers to open a session in a state session?

    As you mentioned, theories can and often are, dis-proven.

    Unlike some people’s take on Christianity.

  148. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    As far as the Kitzmiller v Dover case goes, the opinion of one judge does not make a fact

    Sure it does. Judicial activism reigns and there’s never bias in a courtroom, only “facts”.

  149. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    As far as the Kitzmiller v Dover case goes, the opinion of one judge does not make a fact

    Sure it does. Judicial activism reigns and there’s never bias in a courtroom, only “facts”.

  150. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    mharper #58;

    A belief is not subject to scientific testing.

    Like evolution? (Come on now, why limit skepticism to just Intelligent Design?

    Proofs, theories, testing, etc are in the domain of science, not religion

    That must by why evolution is treated and protected like it were a religion?

    I do not believe in God, but if God were to appear before me in some indisputable fashion, I would have no option other than to say His existence was now proven to me.

    And there were many whose faith was so exceedingly strong, even before Christ came, who could not be kept from within the veil, but truly saw with their eyes the things which they had beheld with an eye of faith, and they were glad.

    Ether 12:19.

    Just something to consider and ponder upon.

  151. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    mharper #58;

    A belief is not subject to scientific testing.

    Like evolution? (Come on now, why limit skepticism to just Intelligent Design?

    Proofs, theories, testing, etc are in the domain of science, not religion

    That must by why evolution is treated and protected like it were a religion?

    I do not believe in God, but if God were to appear before me in some indisputable fashion, I would have no option other than to say His existence was now proven to me.

    And there were many whose faith was so exceedingly strong, even before Christ came, who could not be kept from within the veil, but truly saw with their eyes the things which they had beheld with an eye of faith, and they were glad.
    Ether 12:19.
    Just something to consider and ponder upon.

  152. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Oops, let’s try the link.

    Ether 12:19

  153. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Oops, let’s try the link.
    Ether 12:19

  154. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    Darren & FA, y’all should read the sworn depositions and trial transcripts, or at least the 139 page opinion before jumping to faith based conclusions. I have read all the documents, and so should you. Really, you should.

    Under cross examination, the defendant’s star expert witness, Michael Behe, said this:

    There are no peer reviewed articles by anyone advocating for intelligent design supported by pertinent experiments or calculations which provide detailed rigorous accounts of how intelligent design of any biological system occurred.

    Behe, also testified that the definition of “theory” as applied to intelligent design, would be like calling astrology a scientific theory. Does anyone think that astrology should be taught as an alternative to astronomy? Get real. You might as well teach Alchemy as an alternative theory to the periodic table of the elements.

    On the other hand, witnesses for the plaintiffs included a Roman Catholic theologian as well as protestant Christians who taught at a Vacation Bible School, and Catholic parents who testified that their children had been called “atheists” by other kids at the school simply because their beliefs were compatible with evolution.

    Ultimately, the handful of flat earthers young earth creationists on the school board were pawns of two national organisations that feel science threatens their beliefs. The judge showed mercy by not recommending perjury charges, as did the plaintiffs, by motioning to reduce the cost of the trial by half. Sadly, the innocent citizens of the small Dover school district still had to cough up $1M in lawyers fees because a bunch of nutjobs felt it very important for the the government to teach everybody’s kids their peculiar religious beliefs. The trial could be accurately described as showing up for a poop fight armed only with a fart. Again, read the transcripts.

    I would never support any government powerful enough to keep parents from passing their religious beliefs on to their offspring. Doing so is natural. What these two national organizations, along with their duped pawns did was try to teach everyone’s kids that faith equals science. That crosses a serious line with me, and I will not tolerate it, at all.

    That trial proved that ID = religion, and that some religious folk don’t hesitate to bear false witness in their crusade against science.

    Read the freaking transcripts, please.

  155. bob42 Avatar
    bob42

    Darren & FA, y’all should read the sworn depositions and trial transcripts, or at least the 139 page opinion before jumping to faith based conclusions. I have read all the documents, and so should you. Really, you should.
    Under cross examination, the defendant’s star expert witness, Michael Behe, said this:

    There are no peer reviewed articles by anyone advocating for intelligent design supported by pertinent experiments or calculations which provide detailed rigorous accounts of how intelligent design of any biological system occurred.

    Behe, also testified that the definition of “theory” as applied to intelligent design, would be like calling astrology a scientific theory. Does anyone think that astrology should be taught as an alternative to astronomy? Get real. You might as well teach Alchemy as an alternative theory to the periodic table of the elements.
    On the other hand, witnesses for the plaintiffs included a Roman Catholic theologian as well as protestant Christians who taught at a Vacation Bible School, and Catholic parents who testified that their children had been called “atheists” by other kids at the school simply because their beliefs were compatible with evolution.
    Ultimately, the handful of flat earthers young earth creationists on the school board were pawns of two national organisations that feel science threatens their beliefs. The judge showed mercy by not recommending perjury charges, as did the plaintiffs, by motioning to reduce the cost of the trial by half. Sadly, the innocent citizens of the small Dover school district still had to cough up $1M in lawyers fees because a bunch of nutjobs felt it very important for the the government to teach everybody’s kids their peculiar religious beliefs. The trial could be accurately described as showing up for a poop fight armed only with a fart. Again, read the transcripts.
    I would never support any government powerful enough to keep parents from passing their religious beliefs on to their offspring. Doing so is natural. What these two national organizations, along with their duped pawns did was try to teach everyone’s kids that faith equals science. That crosses a serious line with me, and I will not tolerate it, at all.
    That trial proved that ID = religion, and that some religious folk don’t hesitate to bear false witness in their crusade against science.
    Read the freaking transcripts, please.

  156. fat albert Avatar
    fat albert

    Bob,

    I would never support any government powerful enough to keep parents from passing their religious beliefs on to their offspring. Doing so is natural. What these two national organizations, along with their duped pawns did was try to teach everyone’s kids that faith equals science. That crosses a serious line with me, and I will not tolerate it, at all.

    Once again you’ve started out arguing one point and when that doesn’t work you switch and begin arguing about something else entirely.

    We were not discussing the merits of schools teaching evolution or intelligent design. (Frankly, given my experience teaching college for the last few years, I would say that the bigger problem is that public schools are not teaching anything at all.)

    MHarper42’s original assertion is that Evolution is a theory – which means that it seems to offer an explanation for all of the observable data surrounding a question. Then he says that ID is not a theory but a belief (a phrase you tilt in pejorative fashion) since it can’t be tested. To support his assertion you lamely offer the opinion of a judge.

    I will repeat my assertion: If Intelligent Design is faith and not a theory, then exactly the same thing can be said of the “Big Bang Faith” and the “Faith of Evolution”. Neither can be either tested or proven. Unless you (or some other genius) can come up with a repeatable test wherein macro-evolution can be shown to happen – then it’s no better (or worse) than ID.

    If you don’t want schools teaching about faith – at least require them to point out all of the holes in classic macro-evolutionary theory. That would be science.

  157. fat albert Avatar
    fat albert

    Bob,

    I would never support any government powerful enough to keep parents from passing their religious beliefs on to their offspring. Doing so is natural. What these two national organizations, along with their duped pawns did was try to teach everyone’s kids that faith equals science. That crosses a serious line with me, and I will not tolerate it, at all.

    Once again you’ve started out arguing one point and when that doesn’t work you switch and begin arguing about something else entirely.
    We were not discussing the merits of schools teaching evolution or intelligent design. (Frankly, given my experience teaching college for the last few years, I would say that the bigger problem is that public schools are not teaching anything at all.)
    MHarper42’s original assertion is that Evolution is a theory – which means that it seems to offer an explanation for all of the observable data surrounding a question. Then he says that ID is not a theory but a belief (a phrase you tilt in pejorative fashion) since it can’t be tested. To support his assertion you lamely offer the opinion of a judge.
    I will repeat my assertion: If Intelligent Design is faith and not a theory, then exactly the same thing can be said of the “Big Bang Faith” and the “Faith of Evolution”. Neither can be either tested or proven. Unless you (or some other genius) can come up with a repeatable test wherein macro-evolution can be shown to happen – then it’s no better (or worse) than ID.
    If you don’t want schools teaching about faith – at least require them to point out all of the holes in classic macro-evolutionary theory. That would be science.

  158. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    FA, I’m not following you at all. I think I’ve been very consistent on this topic.

    Once again you’ve started out arguing one point and when that doesn’t work you switch and begin arguing about something else entirely.

    I usually don’t debate young earth creationists because I don’t want to waste my time with what ultimately ends up being circular logic.

    Unlike entirely static faith based creationism, the many theories regarding biological evolution are subject to constant scrutiny and modification as science progresses. When a proponent of a particular theory is presented with compelling contradictory evidence, they accept it, admit they were wrong, and move on. This happens in all areas of scientific research, and is a very good thing. The same can not be said for religious creationist Biblical literalists.

    If you don’t want schools teaching about faith – at least require them to point out all of the holes in classic macro-evolutionary theory. That would be science.

    Please define “classic macro-evolutionary theory.” Especially the “classic” part. Many of Darwin’s and other’s theories have been abandoned or modified thanks to the scientific method, yet, the young earthers often go for the 150 year old theories, accurately poke holes in them, and conclude that because those holes exist, their faith based beliefs are somehow supported or proven. They are not.

    As I said above, I don’t at all mind schools teaching about various faiths. But to equivocate faith with science is just plain wrong, especially when you consider the motivations for doing so.

    ID = Creationism = Flying Spaghetti Monster. Why not teach 9th grade science students about the “theory” of the FSM too? Or better yet, why not teach 9th grade science students about all of the holes created by the contradictions in the various versions of the Bible?

  159. bob42 Avatar
    bob42

    FA, I’m not following you at all. I think I’ve been very consistent on this topic.

    Once again you’ve started out arguing one point and when that doesn’t work you switch and begin arguing about something else entirely.

    I usually don’t debate young earth creationists because I don’t want to waste my time with what ultimately ends up being circular logic.
    Unlike entirely static faith based creationism, the many theories regarding biological evolution are subject to constant scrutiny and modification as science progresses. When a proponent of a particular theory is presented with compelling contradictory evidence, they accept it, admit they were wrong, and move on. This happens in all areas of scientific research, and is a very good thing. The same can not be said for religious creationist Biblical literalists.

    If you don’t want schools teaching about faith – at least require them to point out all of the holes in classic macro-evolutionary theory. That would be science.

    Please define “classic macro-evolutionary theory.” Especially the “classic” part. Many of Darwin’s and other’s theories have been abandoned or modified thanks to the scientific method, yet, the young earthers often go for the 150 year old theories, accurately poke holes in them, and conclude that because those holes exist, their faith based beliefs are somehow supported or proven. They are not.
    As I said above, I don’t at all mind schools teaching about various faiths. But to equivocate faith with science is just plain wrong, especially when you consider the motivations for doing so.
    ID = Creationism = Flying Spaghetti Monster. Why not teach 9th grade science students about the “theory” of the FSM too? Or better yet, why not teach 9th grade science students about all of the holes created by the contradictions in the various versions of the Bible?

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