Update: What’s the Point in Converting People to Atheism?

I just don’t understand many of the atheists out there. Atheism is derived from the Greek theos (“god”), prefixed by ‘a’ (“without”), in other words “without god”. (In a similar manner we have agnosticism (‘a’ – “without” + ‘gnosis’ – “knowing”)

Given this, why is it that many atheists seem to want to convert people to – nothing? Christians and other believers in God (or a god, or several gods) often try to convert others to belief in the same thing in which they themselves believe, in the hope that the other will find salvation, inner peace, enlightenment, or whatever that particular faith holds. How does one convert someone else to nothingness?

An example of atheist efforts will soon be unveiled across the country, where several atheist groups are vying for a share of the market of those who have fallen away from religious association of whatever kind. It’s one thing to try to convince others by engaging them in conversation, but these people are mounting a full-fledged campaign that includes various forms of media including radio and television advertisements. This has to cost a significant amount of money – to what avail?

Looking at some of the ads from the Freedom From Religion Foundation
, it is difficult for me to see how they will pull this off without actually alienating many people they might want to recruit.

The American Humanist Association takes a slightly different tack, using brief quotes from the Bible & Koran, often out of context or those that clearly should not be taken literally, to show their point of view.

Then there’s the Madeline Murray O’Hareites at American Athiests who are using a play on the “Celebrate the Reason for the Season” we’ve all seen. They are planning a billboard at an approach to the Lincoln Tunnel heading into New York City that says, “You Know it’s a Myth. This Season Celebrate Reason.” Whoo! That’s clever. From their website:

This year’s first big pre-holiday blow-out comes from atheists who are trying to take the religious edge off this time of year by featuring passages from the Bible and other religious texts that mention slaughtered men, plundered cities, severed heads and women eviscerated. You know, the cheery stuff.

This just makes them come across as a bunch of bitter people who believe in a similar way to how they wrongly perceive religious people – they’re terrified that someone else may have just found the secret to true happiness and it’s not them.

Finally, there’s the runt group United Coalition of Reason, who just don’t seem to be quite in the big leagues yet.

My confusion is that all this seems to lack an actual point, not to mention it’s like trying to sell a product that serves no function by comparing it to one that does – “Buy our new electronics-free mp3 player! You’ll love its silence!”

Update:
This is a nationwide campaign. Buses in Ft. Worth will soon have these ads plastered on their sides.

All is not lost, however. An anonymous donor in NY City gave the Catholic League $18,500 to rent a billboard at the other end of the tunnel.


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52 responses to “Update: What’s the Point in Converting People to Atheism?”

  1. Dooood Avatar

    Frank Costanza: “Many Christmases ago, I went to buy a doll for my son. I reached for the last one they had, but so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way.”
    Cosmo Kramer: “What happened to the doll?”
    Frank Costanza: “It was destroyed. But out of that a new holiday was born: a Festivus for the rest of us!”
    Kramer: “That must have been some kind of doll.”
    Frank Costanza: “She was.”

    All these pathetic attempts at marketing a philosophical vacuum as something when it is really nothing have a very, and I am sure unintended, Seinfeldian tone about them.

    Sorry, but I can’t help but just laugh at them.

  2. Texpat Avatar
    Texpat

    Frank Costanza: “Many Christmases ago, I went to buy a doll for my son. I reached for the last one they had, but so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way.”
    Cosmo Kramer: “What happened to the doll?”
    Frank Costanza: “It was destroyed. But out of that a new holiday was born: a Festivus for the rest of us!”
    Kramer: “That must have been some kind of doll.”
    Frank Costanza: “She was.”

    All these pathetic attempts at marketing a philosophical vacuum as something when it is really nothing have a very, and I am sure unintended, Seinfeldian tone about them.

    Sorry, but I can’t help but just laugh at them.

  3. Tedtam Avatar

    They simply need to prove they are right. Or convince others, anyway. Religious groups, as you said, believe we are offering people salvation. Atheists believe they are offering freedom – from religious morals and rituals.

    From what I’ve seen, dictators are either atheists or twist religion to serve their own needs. The best leaders are those who live their lives by a set of principles from a higher power, who believe that they are answerable for their actions to something larger than themselves. I would be uncomfortable with an atheist as a leader, no matter how nice or how secularly moral he/she is. Without accountability at a core level – not just being kicked out of office or thrown in jail, but a real and eternal judgment of behavior – what is to stop this person from committing real damage for personal gain?

    Granted, even so-called “religious” leaders stumble, but if they are true to their faith, I believe it serves as some kind of brake to bad behavior. This doesn’t only apply to federal or state officials, either.

    The trick is to discern the faith-filled to those that are filled with something else.

  4. Tedtam Avatar

    They simply need to prove they are right. Or convince others, anyway. Religious groups, as you said, believe we are offering people salvation. Atheists believe they are offering freedom – from religious morals and rituals.

    From what I’ve seen, dictators are either atheists or twist religion to serve their own needs. The best leaders are those who live their lives by a set of principles from a higher power, who believe that they are answerable for their actions to something larger than themselves. I would be uncomfortable with an atheist as a leader, no matter how nice or how secularly moral he/she is. Without accountability at a core level – not just being kicked out of office or thrown in jail, but a real and eternal judgment of behavior – what is to stop this person from committing real damage for personal gain?

    Granted, even so-called “religious” leaders stumble, but if they are true to their faith, I believe it serves as some kind of brake to bad behavior. This doesn’t only apply to federal or state officials, either.

    The trick is to discern the faith-filled to those that are filled with something else.

  5. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    #1 Texpat – Heh. Atheists actually make me think of a movie scene:

    Donny: Are these the Nazis, Walter?
    Walter Sobchak: No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there’s nothing to be afraid of.
    Nihilist: Ve don’t care. Ve still vant ze money, Lebowski, or ve wiss you up.
    Walter Sobchak: Wiss you. Wiss the three of you.
    The Dude: Hey, cool it Walter.
    Walter Sobchak: No, without a hostage, there is no ransom. That’s what ransom is. Those are the wissing rules.
    Nihilist #2: His girlfriend gave up her toe!
    Nihilist #3: She thought we’d be getting million dollars!
    Nihilist #2: Iss not fair!
    Walter Sobchak: FAIR!! WHO’S THE WISSING NIHILIST HERE!? WHAT ARE YOU, A BUNCH OF WISSING CRYBABIES?

  6. Hamous Avatar

    #1 Texpat – Heh. Atheists actually make me think of a movie scene:

    Donny: Are these the Nazis, Walter?
    Walter Sobchak: No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there’s nothing to be afraid of.
    Nihilist: Ve don’t care. Ve still vant ze money, Lebowski, or ve wiss you up.
    Walter Sobchak: Wiss you. Wiss the three of you.
    The Dude: Hey, cool it Walter.
    Walter Sobchak: No, without a hostage, there is no ransom. That’s what ransom is. Those are the wissing rules.
    Nihilist #2: His girlfriend gave up her toe!
    Nihilist #3: She thought we’d be getting million dollars!
    Nihilist #2: Iss not fair!
    Walter Sobchak: FAIR!! WHO’S THE WISSING NIHILIST HERE!? WHAT ARE YOU, A BUNCH OF WISSING CRYBABIES?

  7. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    Speaking as perhaps the only acknowledged atheist who posts here, I’d like to say that I happily coexist with religions and religious adherents — except for those that perpetrate jihad on others.

    I don’t even mind being proselytized, I just say “No, thanks”.

    I even put up a Christmas tree but mine is decorated with hundreds of lights and musical instrument ornaments — totally secular.

    I don’t think a single one of my friends in Houston is not religious to some degree. I have high respect for Christians and Jews, less so for the Eastern religions which don’t seem to me to foster moral behavior in the Western sense. I have not studied Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism etc but from what little I do know about those cultures, I just don’t see The Golden Rule being practised in them, and that is my yardstick.

    Hey, Merry Christmas everyone although it’s a little early.

  8. mharper42 Avatar
    mharper42

    Speaking as perhaps the only acknowledged atheist who posts here, I’d like to say that I happily coexist with religions and religious adherents — except for those that perpetrate jihad on others.

    I don’t even mind being proselytized, I just say “No, thanks”.

    I even put up a Christmas tree but mine is decorated with hundreds of lights and musical instrument ornaments — totally secular.

    I don’t think a single one of my friends in Houston is not religious to some degree. I have high respect for Christians and Jews, less so for the Eastern religions which don’t seem to me to foster moral behavior in the Western sense. I have not studied Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism etc but from what little I do know about those cultures, I just don’t see The Golden Rule being practised in them, and that is my yardstick.

    Hey, Merry Christmas everyone although it’s a little early.

  9. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    Our Declaration of Independence includes a phrase about our certain inalienable rights being endowed to us by our “creator.” It assumes a deity as the source of these rights. If the lefties can figure out a way to work around that “creator” thing, they then have a shot at enacting the rest of their big government, our way or the highway, agenda. Then they can freely deal with such inconveniences such as abortion, old age pensions, fetal stem cell research, creating babies to harvest organs transplant, too sick (or expensive or old or not thinking properly) to heal, population control… – the list goes on forever.

    As usual, since they are unable to convince enough of the populace to go along with this idea, they must use the courts which they do very well. Without that deity thing standing in the way, there is no limit to the mischief they can dream up and make sound good.

  10. El Gordo Avatar

    Our Declaration of Independence includes a phrase about our certain inalienable rights being endowed to us by our “creator.” It assumes a deity as the source of these rights. If the lefties can figure out a way to work around that “creator” thing, they then have a shot at enacting the rest of their big government, our way or the highway, agenda. Then they can freely deal with such inconveniences such as abortion, old age pensions, fetal stem cell research, creating babies to harvest organs transplant, too sick (or expensive or old or not thinking properly) to heal, population control… – the list goes on forever.

    As usual, since they are unable to convince enough of the populace to go along with this idea, they must use the courts which they do very well. Without that deity thing standing in the way, there is no limit to the mischief they can dream up and make sound good.

  11. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    “Atheist” is a word that has historically carried a lot of presumptive baggage and knee jerk negative reaction, much of it very defensive. For that reason, I usually prefer to self ID as skeptical, non-theist, or ambivalent about individual beliefs regarding the supernatural.

    I think it’s a demonstrable fact that the tendency for religious belief is innate in humans, and a largely helpful inclination. However, I would never seek to talk anyone out of their religious beliefs. From what I know about the various organizations that sponsor them, that is not the goal of the advertisements either.

  12. bob42 Avatar

    “Atheist” is a word that has historically carried a lot of presumptive baggage and knee jerk negative reaction, much of it very defensive. For that reason, I usually prefer to self ID as skeptical, non-theist, or ambivalent about individual beliefs regarding the supernatural.

    I think it’s a demonstrable fact that the tendency for religious belief is innate in humans, and a largely helpful inclination. However, I would never seek to talk anyone out of their religious beliefs. From what I know about the various organizations that sponsor them, that is not the goal of the advertisements either.

  13. Adee Avatar
    Adee

    Given this, why is it that many atheists seem to want to convert people to – nothing?

    They feel threatened because religion is foisted upon them everywhere they turn. It cramps their style. So instead of blending into the background like like Mharper, they make waves, cause a fuss, and file lawsuits. Many do actually believe that religion is some sort of mental disorder and that the world would be a much better place without it hence some are proactive in the movement to eradicate religion.

  14. TexMo Avatar
    TexMo

    Given this, why is it that many atheists seem to want to convert people to – nothing?

    They feel threatened because religion is foisted upon them everywhere they turn. It cramps their style. So instead of blending into the background like like Mharper, they make waves, cause a fuss, and file lawsuits. Many do actually believe that religion is some sort of mental disorder and that the world would be a much better place without it hence some are proactive in the movement to eradicate religion.

  15. TampaTom Avatar
    TampaTom

    At first sight I thought, “misery loves company.” But, upon reflection, maybe it is something bigger than just a bunch or atheist trying to get attention. Have you ever noticed how the first thing a tyrant wants to do is to destroy religion? In the bible, in the story of the Tower of Babel, I believe that Nimrod was a big proponent of “there is no God” so he could subjugate the people. I am not of the Jewish faith, but I recently read a piece on this by Rabbi Daniel Lapin which was very thought provoking since he tied the Tower of Babel and Nimrod into what may be going on in our country today with the progressive movement.

  16. TampaTom Avatar
    TampaTom

    At first sight I thought, “misery loves company.” But, upon reflection, maybe it is something bigger than just a bunch or atheist trying to get attention. Have you ever noticed how the first thing a tyrant wants to do is to destroy religion? In the bible, in the story of the Tower of Babel, I believe that Nimrod was a big proponent of “there is no God” so he could subjugate the people. I am not of the Jewish faith, but I recently read a piece on this by Rabbi Daniel Lapin which was very thought provoking since he tied the Tower of Babel and Nimrod into what may be going on in our country today with the progressive movement.

  17. El Gordo Avatar

    Given this, why is it that many atheists seem to want to convert people to – nothing?

    I don’t think it’s that they want to convert people to nothing, it’s more that they want to show that a good and moral life can be lived without belief in a deity, whatever “deity” means in your particular religion. I can see that point even though I am NOT an atheist, or non-deist, or whatever you want to call it.

    That said, conducting an ad campaign just to promote your belief that a good and moral life can be lived without belief in a deity would seem odd to a believer, unless that believer also acknowledges that many atheists view religious beliefs in their various forms throughout history as more harmful than helpful to the human condition. Again, even though I do NOT share that viewpoint, I can at least acknowledge it.

  18. The Dude Avatar

    Given this, why is it that many atheists seem to want to convert people to – nothing?

    I don’t think it’s that they want to convert people to nothing, it’s more that they want to show that a good and moral life can be lived without belief in a deity, whatever “deity” means in your particular religion. I can see that point even though I am NOT an atheist, or non-deist, or whatever you want to call it.

    That said, conducting an ad campaign just to promote your belief that a good and moral life can be lived without belief in a deity would seem odd to a believer, unless that believer also acknowledges that many atheists view religious beliefs in their various forms throughout history as more harmful than helpful to the human condition. Again, even though I do NOT share that viewpoint, I can at least acknowledge it.

  19. Tedtam Avatar

    An atheist can live a good life. An atheist can even be a good person. An atheist, however, places their eternal soul in danger. But since they do not believe in an eternal anything, it doesn’t bother them.

    I don’t know how they explain all the mystical events that happen – people seeing angels, miracles of all types, the explanations of near-death experiences (and no, I don’t think oxygen deprivation or chemical changes in the brain explain why so many of NDEs are remarkably similar), etc.

  20. Tedtam Avatar

    An atheist can live a good life. An atheist can even be a good person. An atheist, however, places their eternal soul in danger. But since they do not believe in an eternal anything, it doesn’t bother them.

    I don’t know how they explain all the mystical events that happen – people seeing angels, miracles of all types, the explanations of near-death experiences (and no, I don’t think oxygen deprivation or chemical changes in the brain explain why so many of NDEs are remarkably similar), etc.

  21. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    Gordo,

    I am not sure how you make the leap from atheism to big government in a single bound. It has been my observation that organized religions tend to grow bureaucracies at or about the same speed as governments.

    Just an observation!

    Simple

  22. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    Gordo,

    I am not sure how you make the leap from atheism to big government in a single bound. It has been my observation that organized religions tend to grow bureaucracies at or about the same speed as governments.

    Just an observation!

    Simple

  23. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    Dude,

    I grew up in a VERY Catholic home. As I grew older I drifted from the Church for a variety of personal reasons. Today, I do not view myself as an atheist, but I am not in the ranks of the “true believers” either. I am not sure what label applies and don’t really care.

    That said….I find it funny that some true believers think that we who are less ardent are disdainful of religion. For me nothing could be further from the truth.

    I share many of the moral beliefs that the true believers have, because one of the functions of religion throughout history is to provide a system of guidelines for “all of us” to live together. That is a pretty valuable thing.

    I even participate in family group “prayers” as matter of respect. I am less inclined to do so when a stranger announces a group prayer in a public meeting, but I do so in a unobtrusive manner.

    I like Thomas Jefferson’s approach to the subject. It matters not to me which God or Gods you worship, as long as, you do not infringe upon my right to worship (or not to) in a manner that I find agreeable.

    Simple

  24. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    Dude,

    I grew up in a VERY Catholic home. As I grew older I drifted from the Church for a variety of personal reasons. Today, I do not view myself as an atheist, but I am not in the ranks of the “true believers” either. I am not sure what label applies and don’t really care.

    That said….I find it funny that some true believers think that we who are less ardent are disdainful of religion. For me nothing could be further from the truth.

    I share many of the moral beliefs that the true believers have, because one of the functions of religion throughout history is to provide a system of guidelines for “all of us” to live together. That is a pretty valuable thing.

    I even participate in family group “prayers” as matter of respect. I am less inclined to do so when a stranger announces a group prayer in a public meeting, but I do so in a unobtrusive manner.

    I like Thomas Jefferson’s approach to the subject. It matters not to me which God or Gods you worship, as long as, you do not infringe upon my right to worship (or not to) in a manner that I find agreeable.

    Simple

  25. El Gordo Avatar

    It matters not to me which God or Gods you worship, as long as, you do not infringe upon my right to worship (or not to) in a manner that I find agreeable.

    I couldn’t agree with that point of view more, Simple.

    Interesting that you grew up in a very Catholic home and have drifted away from that as you grew older. I’ve come to faith from the opposite perspective. I was not the least bit religious as a youngster and, in fact, never went to church at all. My folks were not religious and as such, I can tell you that I was an atheist until adulthood. My conversion to faith came very slowly, and in fact is still a W.I.P. I wasn’t baptized until just a few years ago.

    I even participate in family group “prayers” as matter of respect.

    You remind me a lot of my dad in that regard. Although he is not a religious guy (I’m not even convinced he believes at all) he always participates in family prayers because he knows it’s important to us.

    I can think of no greater example than my own father of how someone can be a non-believer and yet still live a good and moral life. As he is respectful of our religious beliefs, I am in turn respectful of his non-beliefs. I do not nor will I ever harp on him about going to church or being saved. To do so would be disrespectful and there is simply no reason for me to disrespect my own father after the respect he has shown for our religious beliefs.

  26. The Dude Avatar

    It matters not to me which God or Gods you worship, as long as, you do not infringe upon my right to worship (or not to) in a manner that I find agreeable.

    I couldn’t agree with that point of view more, Simple.

    Interesting that you grew up in a very Catholic home and have drifted away from that as you grew older. I’ve come to faith from the opposite perspective. I was not the least bit religious as a youngster and, in fact, never went to church at all. My folks were not religious and as such, I can tell you that I was an atheist until adulthood. My conversion to faith came very slowly, and in fact is still a W.I.P. I wasn’t baptized until just a few years ago.

    I even participate in family group “prayers” as matter of respect.

    You remind me a lot of my dad in that regard. Although he is not a religious guy (I’m not even convinced he believes at all) he always participates in family prayers because he knows it’s important to us.

    I can think of no greater example than my own father of how someone can be a non-believer and yet still live a good and moral life. As he is respectful of our religious beliefs, I am in turn respectful of his non-beliefs. I do not nor will I ever harp on him about going to church or being saved. To do so would be disrespectful and there is simply no reason for me to disrespect my own father after the respect he has shown for our religious beliefs.

  27. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    Dude,

    It is a pity that there are not more like you and your Dad when it comes to this issue.

    Simple

  28. Simple Simon Avatar
    Simple Simon

    Dude,

    It is a pity that there are not more like you and your Dad when it comes to this issue.

    Simple

  29. Super Dave Avatar
    Super Dave

    #11 – Mr. Simple – What are the constraints imposed on our government? Could it be those outlined in our founding documents (except for that separation of church and state thing)? If you were willing to assume, as I do, that every time the government enacts a new law or program, inherent in that law or program are restrictions imposed on its citizens. The more laws that are passed, the bigger government gets, and the more restrictions on the citizenship. If the government were able to eliminate that pesky idea that certain rights are granted by our creator (by say perhaps claiming that the founding fathers were a bunch of superstitious fools or religious extremists) then they could effectively claim that rights are granted by the government – not by the creator. Then the body politic could deal with basic human rights just as it does with property rights, etc. There would be no limiting the governments growth in the name of “do good” since the great unwashed out there know nothing about taking care of themselves. That’s the best I can do with the short form.

    I’m not sure how you make the leap comparing the bureaucracies of organized religions and government, when I thought the topic was the role of atheism in our society – not organized religion.

  30. El Gordo Avatar

    #11 – Mr. Simple – What are the constraints imposed on our government? Could it be those outlined in our founding documents (except for that separation of church and state thing)? If you were willing to assume, as I do, that every time the government enacts a new law or program, inherent in that law or program are restrictions imposed on its citizens. The more laws that are passed, the bigger government gets, and the more restrictions on the citizenship. If the government were able to eliminate that pesky idea that certain rights are granted by our creator (by say perhaps claiming that the founding fathers were a bunch of superstitious fools or religious extremists) then they could effectively claim that rights are granted by the government – not by the creator. Then the body politic could deal with basic human rights just as it does with property rights, etc. There would be no limiting the governments growth in the name of “do good” since the great unwashed out there know nothing about taking care of themselves. That’s the best I can do with the short form.

    I’m not sure how you make the leap comparing the bureaucracies of organized religions and government, when I thought the topic was the role of atheism in our society – not organized religion.

  31. Katfish Avatar

    #9 dude
    The thing with many atheists is that their belief that there is no god has a religious zeal to it. Usually when someone doesn’t think something is there, they simply move on.

    This is what I tried to express on the last paragraph above. These religious atheists (especially the humanist crowd) end up thinking of man as a demigod.

  32. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    #9 dude
    The thing with many atheists is that their belief that there is no god has a religious zeal to it. Usually when someone doesn’t think something is there, they simply move on.

    This is what I tried to express on the last paragraph above. These religious atheists (especially the humanist crowd) end up thinking of man as a demigod.

  33. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    Can’t we all just get a bong?

  34. bob42 Avatar

    Can’t we all just get a bong?

  35. El Gordo Avatar

    The thing with many atheists is that their belief that there is no god has a religious zeal to it.

    Oh I agree completely. And those are the atheists that you’re acutely aware of because of how vocal they are about it.

    On the flip side, there are those who are that vocal about their religious beliefs and that tends to put non-believers off. No doubt they’re sincerely held beliefs, but as a later-in-life Christian, I can tell you with 100% certainty that if that vociferous method of trying to win me over to Christ had been used, I would have just about literally run away screaming in the opposite direction.

    So on that note I’ll offer up major props to the outreach minister at the church where we are now members. He casually – over the course of years and many lunches – brought me to Christ through baptism. No high pressure sales pitch because he knew that it would have exactly the effect of driving me away rather than drawing me in. I’m blessed to have him in my life and our church is blessed to have him in the position he is in.

  36. The Dude Avatar

    The thing with many atheists is that their belief that there is no god has a religious zeal to it.

    Oh I agree completely. And those are the atheists that you’re acutely aware of because of how vocal they are about it.

    On the flip side, there are those who are that vocal about their religious beliefs and that tends to put non-believers off. No doubt they’re sincerely held beliefs, but as a later-in-life Christian, I can tell you with 100% certainty that if that vociferous method of trying to win me over to Christ had been used, I would have just about literally run away screaming in the opposite direction.

    So on that note I’ll offer up major props to the outreach minister at the church where we are now members. He casually – over the course of years and many lunches – brought me to Christ through baptism. No high pressure sales pitch because he knew that it would have exactly the effect of driving me away rather than drawing me in. I’m blessed to have him in my life and our church is blessed to have him in the position he is in.

  37. El Gordo Avatar

    These religious atheists (especially the humanist crowd) end up thinking of man as a demigod.

    And that is essentially one of the biggest pragmatic values of religion (if indeed it is possible for there to be such a value): It keeps us humble. The simple act of not viewing yourself as the center of the universe changes the way we live and interact with one another. That’s the way I see it in general terms anyway. Of course there are some atheists who are truly humble people and there are some believers who are self-centered jerks, so as I say, just a generalization.

  38. The Dude Avatar

    These religious atheists (especially the humanist crowd) end up thinking of man as a demigod.

    And that is essentially one of the biggest pragmatic values of religion (if indeed it is possible for there to be such a value): It keeps us humble. The simple act of not viewing yourself as the center of the universe changes the way we live and interact with one another. That’s the way I see it in general terms anyway. Of course there are some atheists who are truly humble people and there are some believers who are self-centered jerks, so as I say, just a generalization.

  39. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    Dude – was it you that related the story to me about going to one of those Six Flags Over Heaven megachurches and an acquaintance explained they liked it because they didn’t talk about all that “god” stuff?

  40. Hamous Avatar

    Dude – was it you that related the story to me about going to one of those Six Flags Over Heaven megachurches and an acquaintance explained they liked it because they didn’t talk about all that “god” stuff?

  41. Katfish Avatar

    #18 dude
    When talking to people about the Church, I try to keep it very low key, answering questions and planting seeds. After that, I let the Holy Spirit take over. He’s really good at that kind of thing.

  42. wagonburner Avatar
    wagonburner

    #18 dude
    When talking to people about the Church, I try to keep it very low key, answering questions and planting seeds. After that, I let the Holy Spirit take over. He’s really good at that kind of thing.

  43. El Gordo Avatar

    Heh! Yup that was me. Mrs. and I still laugh about that.

  44. The Dude Avatar

    Heh! Yup that was me. Mrs. and I still laugh about that.

  45. El Gordo Avatar

    True dat Wagoneer. Y’all be good… gotta go.

  46. The Dude Avatar

    True dat Wagoneer. Y’all be good… gotta go.

  47. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Simple and Dude;

    It’s very good to know of the good works within your families. My parents hooked up ona blind date right at the time Mother decided to investigate the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. She fell in love with Dad who expressed little to no interest in the Church at the same time she decided to join. She placed her faith in God knowing that was the right thing to do. It was Mother’s baptism that triggered Dad’s interest and after about a year of investigating and prayer, he decided to join.

    Both their parents were upset at their decision to join the LDS Church but very respectful of that decision as well. Over time though Grandma from Mother’s side and Grandma and Grandpa on Father’s side saw many good works done between Mom and Dad and that was humbling to them.

    Growing up I had no idea my grandparents (Grandma on mom’s side passed away when I was quite young) had initial apprehensions about their church membership. My understanding is that at times they were downright troubling and resentful. But I grew up praying with Grandma and Grandpa, sharing spiritual insights, I attended church services with them during long stayovers, and we spoke of Jesus. Later on in life as I was preparing to serve an LDS mission and my uncle began studying to become a Lutheran minister, he and I had a couple pretty decent Bible discussions. My family also attended one of his services and had a private session of honoring Grandma when she passed away. A Lutheran-based funeral if you will where Uncle conducted the ceremony. (NOTE: Grandpa has passed away recently before Grandma and we did not like the current minister’s service for him so that’s why we gathered privately for Grandma).

    Simple good works resulted in miracles in my family. Good works shown overcame resentment and apprehension between the generations to the point where I was shocked to have ever learned these not so appealing sentiments ever existed. Good works were more effective than the most staunchest of preaching could have ever been with my parents and grandparents.

  48. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    Simple and Dude;

    It’s very good to know of the good works within your families. My parents hooked up ona blind date right at the time Mother decided to investigate the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. She fell in love with Dad who expressed little to no interest in the Church at the same time she decided to join. She placed her faith in God knowing that was the right thing to do. It was Mother’s baptism that triggered Dad’s interest and after about a year of investigating and prayer, he decided to join.

    Both their parents were upset at their decision to join the LDS Church but very respectful of that decision as well. Over time though Grandma from Mother’s side and Grandma and Grandpa on Father’s side saw many good works done between Mom and Dad and that was humbling to them.

    Growing up I had no idea my grandparents (Grandma on mom’s side passed away when I was quite young) had initial apprehensions about their church membership. My understanding is that at times they were downright troubling and resentful. But I grew up praying with Grandma and Grandpa, sharing spiritual insights, I attended church services with them during long stayovers, and we spoke of Jesus. Later on in life as I was preparing to serve an LDS mission and my uncle began studying to become a Lutheran minister, he and I had a couple pretty decent Bible discussions. My family also attended one of his services and had a private session of honoring Grandma when she passed away. A Lutheran-based funeral if you will where Uncle conducted the ceremony. (NOTE: Grandpa has passed away recently before Grandma and we did not like the current minister’s service for him so that’s why we gathered privately for Grandma).

    Simple good works resulted in miracles in my family. Good works shown overcame resentment and apprehension between the generations to the point where I was shocked to have ever learned these not so appealing sentiments ever existed. Good works were more effective than the most staunchest of preaching could have ever been with my parents and grandparents.

  49. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    I tend to agree with Gordo that much of this current movement to push atheism will result, intended or not, in bigger government. Our nation was founded upon Christian and Judaic principles and there is no other fatih that exists nor will ever exist that will keep us a free nation.

  50. Darren Avatar
    Darren

    I tend to agree with Gordo that much of this current movement to push atheism will result, intended or not, in bigger government. Our nation was founded upon Christian and Judaic principles and there is no other fatih that exists nor will ever exist that will keep us a free nation.

  51. OletimerLin Avatar
    OletimerLin

    This is a nationwide campaign. Buses in Ft. Worth will soon have these ads plastered on their sides.

    I blame teh gayz

  52. bob42 Avatar

    This is a nationwide campaign. Buses in Ft. Worth will soon have these ads plastered on their sides.

    I blame teh gayz

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